My Dnepr MT-11 Story

Are ya having a problem with your rig? We'll try to help. Share your tech tips and experiences here. Dr. Billy Glaser, author of the "Unofficial 750 Ural Service Manual" site myural.com, is moderating this section.
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Here is the place for you to ask questions about or share your experiences about servicing or repairing your Ural or Dnepr. Please post topics concering modifications or accesories in the "Modifications and Acessories" section. Please post oil related questions in the "Oil Threads" section.
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Orangecicle
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Re: My Dnepr MT-11 Story

Post by Orangecicle » Fri Nov 29, 2019 6:43 pm

:wacko: I popped open the ignition switch to give it a bit of a cleaning. It's just like all other old switches I've dug into. It has a plastic arm on which float contact plates. The plates are shoved down to the contact points by little springs. The springs are held in place by little ball bearnings. The "contacts" side of the switch is held to the upper metal part by simple bends in the metal that lock it in place on the contacts portion. Once you bend those out of the way, little springs, ball bearings, and other sundry parts go flying all over your garage. :brickwall: My advice for anyone wanting to take on this task -- mark the location of all wires, disconnect everything, and take the unit to a nice clean workbench. It's not a hard job, but it is super fiddly.

The dirty contacts:

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Re: My Dnepr MT-11 Story

Post by Orangecicle » Fri Nov 29, 2019 6:46 pm

FYI, I upgraded the power wire from the battery to 14 gauge and cleaned up the other parts of the wiring. Everything looks pretty good now. The bike still won't start. It stumbles, but it just won't run yet. The spark looks pretty good on both jugs, so I'm slowly narrowing down the possible issues.

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Re: My Dnepr MT-11 Story

Post by Claus » Fri Nov 29, 2019 6:57 pm

Perhaps you should TALK to the motorcycle very slow and clearly with a pleasant voice and describe your wishes and expectations to her. Place a big sledge hammer somewhere she can see it. It`s always the old game of sugar bread and whip :mrgreen:
owned bikes: 93 Ural rig domestic model, 95 Suzuki DR 650 RSE, BMW R100GS, Suzuki GSX1100G rig, BMW R100R rig with Ural sidecar, Ural rig with BMW drivetrain under construction,

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Re: My Dnepr MT-11 Story

Post by Mr Wazzock » Fri Nov 29, 2019 6:59 pm

:D
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Re: My Dnepr MT-11 Story

Post by dneprlover » Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:23 am

As a matter of interest, what voltages do you have coming out of the switch please?

I would go over the valve clearances and ignition timing again ( I presume you have a manual , if not, I can run through the procedures if you wish)
Points gap should be set at 20 thou fully open And each tappet should have about 3 thou clearance.
The timing mark on the flywheel is not always accurate and I prefer to have it showing nearer to the bottom of the timing hole than lined up to the mark. I learned that lesson many years ago when I started playing with Dneprs and have an extensive collection of holed pistons.

You may wish to fit an aftermarket coil rather than the Ukranian ones. the new type they supply is actually pretty good with the advantage they fit in the OE position. Nevals in the UK used to weld a piece of 1" angle iron to the top engine steady and fit either a 1970s Kawasaki ZX twin output coil or a similar Dynacoil. primary resistance needed is about 3.5 ohms. this improves reliability tremendously. The modern Ukrainian cols have a primary resistance of less than 2 ohms to suit the EI modules but they work just as well with points. Don't listen to those Ural owners who tell you to fit a 5 ohm coil.
Neval BMW/MT11 800cc hybrid, Neval 2wd MT10-36, Neval standard MT10-36, Neval MT16, another MT11, BMW/MB650 hybrid , K750m , MB750 and a standard MT10-36 outfit + 2 large sheds full of spares for them.

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Re: My Dnepr MT-11 Story

Post by Orangecicle » Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:19 pm

dneprlover wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:23 am
As a matter of interest, what voltages do you have coming out of the switch please?

I would go over the valve clearances and ignition timing again ( I presume you have a manual , if not, I can run through the procedures if you wish)
Points gap should be set at 20 thou fully open And each tappet should have about 3 thou clearance.
The timing mark on the flywheel is not always accurate and I prefer to have it showing nearer to the bottom of the timing hole than lined up to the mark. I learned that lesson many years ago when I started playing with Dneprs and have an extensive collection of holed pistons.

You may wish to fit an aftermarket coil rather than the Ukranian ones. the new type they supply is actually pretty good with the advantage they fit in the OE position. Nevals in the UK used to weld a piece of 1" angle iron to the top engine steady and fit either a 1970s Kawasaki ZX twin output coil or a similar Dynacoil. primary resistance needed is about 3.5 ohms. this improves reliability tremendously. The modern Ukrainian cols have a primary resistance of less than 2 ohms to suit the EI modules but they work just as well with points. Don't listen to those Ural owners who tell you to fit a 5 ohm coil.
Thanks. I need to buy/fashion a timing light. I found a description online describing how to time the Dnepr (fully advance weights with a paperclip). I've tried so many different timing positions that I don't think timing is the issue.

Spark at this point looks decent. I think it should be enough to run, and the bike does stumble but won't run.

I know I need to go back in and clean up the carb bowls and probably make my own carb gaskets (the repair kit ones are not shaped properly). I'll try to take care of that today and make sure the carbs are fully cleaned up with the Walbro needles seating properly.

Thereafter . . . I'm thinking maybe she's just so down on compression that she can't run. Thankfully, jugs and pistons are cheap. But, one thing at a time. One thing at a time. {It is a winter project, after all.}

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Re: My Dnepr MT-11 Story

Post by Roundoz » Sat Nov 30, 2019 5:12 pm

Bear in mind that it was starting and running fine just a few engine-hours ago. The only problem I had after fitting the new carbs was that they seemed to be getting too hot while sitting and idling, with me trying to get the fueling correct. I fashioned the (ugly) heat deflectors for it to try to prevent that and then the project was shelved. At the point I stopped messing with it would start pretty reliably after two or three kicks and run for 15-20 minutes before getting out of sorts and quitting. The only thing that made sense to me was overheated carbs.
It’s possible it holed a piston or burnt a valve I guess, but a compression check should tell you that.
I’m curious as to the wiring looking old- the Denver guy that sold it to me said it was bought as a palletized kit that he assembled. I always assumed these were new from the factory, just assembled from parts that were not the same standard as the Urals, but maybe someone more informed here has better knowledge of whether that is likely.
I’m glad you took this on with full knowledge that it would be a winter project but I feel bad that you are having these issues.

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Re: My Dnepr MT-11 Story

Post by dneprlover » Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:33 pm

Timing light not needed. You need to get it running anyway before one would be any use. If engine has been stood, suspect gummed rings. Not sure of the engine spec you have but anything over 90psi on each pot +/- 10% will run ok. I still suspect valve clearances or possibly that coil breaking down.
What spark plugs fitted and are the caps/cables ok?
Neval BMW/MT11 800cc hybrid, Neval 2wd MT10-36, Neval standard MT10-36, Neval MT16, another MT11, BMW/MB650 hybrid , K750m , MB750 and a standard MT10-36 outfit + 2 large sheds full of spares for them.

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Orangecicle
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Re: My Dnepr MT-11 Story

Post by Orangecicle » Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:18 am

dneprlover wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:33 pm
Timing light not needed. You need to get it running anyway before one would be any use. If engine has been stood, suspect gummed rings. Not sure of the engine spec you have but anything over 90psi on each pot +/- 10% will run ok. I still suspect valve clearances or possibly that coil breaking down.
What spark plugs fitted and are the caps/cables ok?
Valve clearances are good. The coil is a possible issue but seems to be working for now. Plugs are NGK BPR7HS, which is what my Ducati dealer had in stock. They seem to be sparking OK. Plug wires are odd things with hard plastic ends on them, but again, I'm getting spark.

I picked up an inexpensive Bosch cylinder pressure tester last night and ran a test. I forgot to hold the throttle open during testing, so my numbers are likely a bit off, but I did crank if over many times to make sure it maxed out on pressure.

Cold readings:

Left cylinder: 65psi and holding pressure.
Right cylinder: 80psi and holding.

{Note: I forgot to hold the throttle open, so the readings are likely incorrect and a bit low.}

I added some oil to the cylinders and kicked it over many times this morning with the following results {with the throttle open}:

Left cylinder: 165ish psi and holding
Right cylinder: 158ish psi and holding

These are all cold readings, but it all suggests to me cylinder wear based on the cold values. Valve train and seating seems OK because she is holding pressure with oil in the cylinder. That also confirms valves are not tight.

I'm thinking she has inadequate pressure to run. That makes some sense to me because the first time it smoked like a two-stroke. It stopped smoking after its maiden voyage around the block. Then again, it still won't start this morning, which is caused either by too much oil in the combustion chamber or . . . carbs.

As you say, it could just be gummed up rings. I really need it running long enough to get it warm.

Assuming I'm dealing with excessive cylinder wear, what is the normal course of repair? New cylinders and pistons, or can the cylinders be milled and plated?

As always, thanks for the comments and ideas. :party:
Last edited by Orangecicle on Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:47 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: My Dnepr MT-11 Story

Post by Orangecicle » Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:27 am

Roundoz wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 5:12 pm
Bear in mind that it was starting and running fine just a few engine-hours ago. The only problem I had after fitting the new carbs was that they seemed to be getting too hot while sitting and idling, with me trying to get the fueling correct. I fashioned the (ugly) heat deflectors for it to try to prevent that and then the project was shelved. At the point I stopped messing with it would start pretty reliably after two or three kicks and run for 15-20 minutes before getting out of sorts and quitting. The only thing that made sense to me was overheated carbs.
It’s possible it holed a piston or burnt a valve I guess, but a compression check should tell you that.
I’m curious as to the wiring looking old- the Denver guy that sold it to me said it was bought as a palletized kit that he assembled. I always assumed these were new from the factory, just assembled from parts that were not the same standard as the Urals, but maybe someone more informed here has better knowledge of whether that is likely.
I’m glad you took this on with full knowledge that it would be a winter project but I feel bad that you are having these issues.
Pffft. Stop worrying that I'm upset or something. I'm having fun. I'm also getting exercise in the process, although my right leg is getting larger than my left from kick starting. :lol:

I also have a strong suspicion that the carbs are still off. I'll pull them and take them down to MotoSports for a full evaluation some time this week. I did a partial teardown of one this past time, but we'll do a full check of them both and get the Walbro needles properly seated in both.

I can say that the motor couldn't have had the level of gunk in the pan without quite a few hours on it, so I'm thinking that my pressure readings are indicative of an older lump than needs a little top-end refresh. That's easily done on this kind of bike and fairly inexpensively even if I need new jugs. Maybe I'll get bigger ones!

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Re: My Dnepr MT-11 Story

Post by dneprlover » Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:47 am

165 and 158 psi are absolutely superb figures for a Dnepr. you do not have to worry about cylinder wear at all. This is a Ukrainian bike manufactured to run on low octane petrol, although it does sound like it has a high compression export engine. it is not a high performance, hi compression Jap engine designed to run on rocket fuel. LEAVE THE CYLINDERS ALONE and don't worry about them. Stop thinking, Mend what is Wrong, not create imaginary problems.

You have resistor spark plugs fitted. If mated with standard (no resistance) plug caps they will be Ok. If resistor caps, the bike will run poorly. The recommended plugs are BP7HS run with 5Kohm NGK caps
Neval BMW/MT11 800cc hybrid, Neval 2wd MT10-36, Neval standard MT10-36, Neval MT16, another MT11, BMW/MB650 hybrid , K750m , MB750 and a standard MT10-36 outfit + 2 large sheds full of spares for them.

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Re: My Dnepr MT-11 Story

Post by Orangecicle » Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:31 pm

dneprlover wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:47 am
165 and 158 psi are absolutely superb figures for a Dnepr. you do not have to worry about cylinder wear at all. This is a Ukrainian bike manufactured to run on low octane petrol, although it does sound like it has a high compression export engine. it is not a high performance, hi compression Jap engine designed to run on rocket fuel. LEAVE THE CYLINDERS ALONE and don't worry about them. Stop thinking, Mend what is Wrong, not create imaginary problems.

You have resistor spark plugs fitted. If mated with standard (no resistance) plug caps they will be Ok. If resistor caps, the bike will run poorly. The recommended plugs are BP7HS run with 5Kohm NGK caps
Yeeeah. I hear ya. I'm back to thinking the problem and solution is with the carbs. Time to pull them and have them fully checked. I'll order a coil upgrade and put some proper plug wires on her this coming week as well.

You asked about the switch power. Everything was showing about 11.45v after the cleaning. I have about 11.25v at the headlight, so I think the new wiring and switch cleaning did some good.

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Re: My Dnepr MT-11 Story

Post by Orangecicle » Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:27 pm

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My plug wires. Neeever seen anything like this before. It's hard plastic, almost like "Bakelite" -- used to make pen bodies in the '20s and '30s. The plug cap may be from the same era! :lol: It has a little bent piece of copper inside that just barely grips the end of the plug. Definitely gotta go!

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Re: My Dnepr MT-11 Story

Post by Orangecicle » Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:57 pm

OMG, it runs!



The idle is set fast here, as it was trying to die at low idle when it first ran. It's also burning off all of the oil I put in the cylinders, as well as some drips and drabs that need to be addressed. But . . . IT RUNS!!!

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Re: My Dnepr MT-11 Story

Post by dneprlover » Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:03 pm

Please. whilst it's running, Check the charging voltage at the battery. 14.2-14.4 volts is about right. Otherwise you obviously need to sort the carbs and do a check on the ignition timing. Maximum advance is 36 degrees but that is verging on trouble. Set 34-35 , preferably nearer to 5 than 4.

Now it is up to you.

And remember, it is an old engine design built to old standards, it will use oil. Much more than any Jap bike, more akin to a 1950s Harley.
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