Hard starting '14.

Woe unto you that bought the first model year of a major remake, perhaps this section can help address any 2014 and later model Ural "imperfections". Here's a special section for folks with the latest rigs to discuss 2014 and later model-related topics such fuel injection, 3-wheel disc brakes, hydraulic steering dampers, spin-on oil filters and other anomalies that don't belong on true Russsian motorcycle ;-P We've gone from using big hammers and greasy wrenches to needing computers and Ouija boards in order to fix our rigs.
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Please keep this section specific to issues pertaining to 2014 and later models such as fuel injection, sidecar and rear disc brakes and so forth. Ask general or non-2014 and later specific questions in the main Hammerin' & Wrenchin' section.
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windmill
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Re: Hard starting '14.

Post by windmill » Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:58 am

stagewex wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:39 am
Windmill, what about the '19's with the new efi system (Keihin). Do you believe this is addressed going forward?
That's a pretty major global company vs. Electrojet.
From what I've seen personally, and as presented at their open house, the new system is a proven system that addresses all the issues mentioned, and is comparable to other contemporary system.

Naturally that comes with additional cost and complication.
Barry

"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills".

2007 Patrol 100k km and counting,
2018 M70

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Re: Hard starting '14.

Post by eastbloc » Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:49 pm

windmill wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:58 am
stagewex wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:39 am
Windmill, what about the '19's with the new efi system (Keihin). Do you believe this is addressed going forward?
That's a pretty major global company vs. Electrojet.
From what I've seen personally, and as presented at their open house, the new system is a proven system that addresses all the issues mentioned, and is comparable to other contemporary system.

Naturally that comes with additional cost and complication.
Yes, but so did fuel injection to begin with.

I do worry that this complexity exposes us to be prone to some of the things that buried some of my beloved BMWs -- expensive proprietary components that make repair impractical once they're of a certain age. How much is a replacement Electrojet ECU or throttle body gonna cost? And unlike those BMWs, which were sold by the tens of thousands, there's not going to be piles of spares on eBay for us to hoard.

I hope someone does come up with a carb retrofit strategy for 2014-2018 bikes just to hedge the bet a little.
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Re: Hard starting '14.

Post by hotflash44 » Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:09 pm

eastbloc wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:49 pm
windmill wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:58 am
stagewex wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:39 am
Windmill, what about the '19's with the new efi system (Keihin). Do you believe this is addressed going forward?
That's a pretty major global company vs. Electrojet.
From what I've seen personally, and as presented at their open house, the new system is a proven system that addresses all the issues mentioned, and is comparable to other contemporary system.

Naturally that comes with additional cost and complication.
Yes, but so did fuel injection to begin with.

I do worry that this complexity exposes us to be prone to some of the things that buried some of my beloved BMWs -- expensive proprietary components that make repair impractical once they're of a certain age. How much is a replacement Electrojet ECU or throttle body gonna cost? And unlike those BMWs, which were sold by the tens of thousands, there's not going to be piles of spares on eBay for us to hoard.

I hope someone does come up with a carb retrofit strategy for 2014-2018 bikes just to hedge the bet a little.
as i understand the efi Urals can be converted to carbs, but the cam profile needs to be changed and a few other changes, haven't heard of to many people needing to replace the ElectroJets yet,wonder if the company is still in business and making parts? :cheers:
2016 gear up asphalt grey, name Seryy Medved ,Air America CIA circa 1967/8 Vung Tau Viet Nam USS Tutuila ARG-4 (AND JUST A TOUCH OF AGENT ORANGE!)

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Re: Hard starting '14.

Post by windmill » Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:23 pm

hotflash44 wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:09 pm
eastbloc wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:49 pm
windmill wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:58 am
stagewex wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:39 am
Windmill, what about the '19's with the new efi system (Keihin). Do you believe this is addressed going forward?
That's a pretty major global company vs. Electrojet.
From what I've seen personally, and as presented at their open house, the new system is a proven system that addresses all the issues mentioned, and is comparable to other contemporary system.

Naturally that comes with additional cost and complication.
Yes, but so did fuel injection to begin with.

I do worry that this complexity exposes us to be prone to some of the things that buried some of my beloved BMWs -- expensive proprietary components that make repair impractical once they're of a certain age. How much is a replacement Electrojet ECU or throttle body gonna cost? And unlike those BMWs, which were sold by the tens of thousands, there's not going to be piles of spares on eBay for us to hoard.

I hope someone does come up with a carb retrofit strategy for 2014-2018 bikes just to hedge the bet a little.
as i understand the efi Urals can be converted to carbs, but the cam profile needs to be changed and a few other changes, haven't heard of to many people needing to replace the ElectroJets yet,wonder if the company is still in business and making parts? :cheers:
Electrojet is still in business, and the throttle bodies are an off the shelf item of theirs, it would just need the map loaded.

The issue isn't the cam itself, it's that the timing system has been moved to the flywheel.
Barry

"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills".

2007 Patrol 100k km and counting,
2018 M70

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Re: Hard starting '14.

Post by Navy TM » Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:28 pm

ElectroJets yet,wonder if the company is still in business and making parts? :cheers:

https://www.electrojet.com/#

My take from reading about the company on their website is that a lot of their hardware is generic and interchangeable, not as much with the software. Just my opinion!

Looks as if Windmill beat me to it :lol:
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Re: Hard starting '14.

Post by eastbloc » Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:32 pm

windmill wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:23 pm

Electrojet is still in business, and the throttle bodies are an off the shelf item of theirs, it would just need the map loaded.
They don't sell to the public as far as I can tell, so we better hope they continue to supply Ural dealers and they continue to offer them to us. I don't know what they cost, but I would suspect it's a fair bit more than twice the price of a new Keihin CV.
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Re: Hard starting '14.

Post by Mr Wazzock » Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:39 pm

Tomcatfixer wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:39 pm
After being out of town for the past three days, I sprayed starting fluid in the crankcase breather input to the airbox and, lawd a-mercy, this bike has never started so quickly!
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20190130_142328.jpg
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This is my new cold weather starting method.
Tomorrow morning, it's supposed to drop down to 20°F, so we'll see how it does at twenty degrees colder.
I got a can of this stuff arrive in the post today.

Just FYI chaps, there's a wee drain hole in the bottom of the air box at the back, might be able to get access to that. (?) not tried it tho)
Mike H
2016 Ural cT, in glorious terracotta
(aka Oranzhevaya Opasnost, "The Orange Peril")

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Re: Hard starting '14.

Post by Mr Wazzock » Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:41 pm

eastbloc wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:32 pm
I don't know what they cost, but I would suspect it's a fair bit more than twice the price of a new Keihin CV.
I think we might, at least one person here had new ones? Chad! Was it? :D
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Re: Hard starting '14.

Post by hotflash44 » Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:45 pm

Mr Wazzock wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:39 pm
Tomcatfixer wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:39 pm
After being out of town for the past three days, I sprayed starting fluid in the crankcase breather input to the airbox and, lawd a-mercy, this bike has never started so quickly!
-
20190130_142328.jpg
-
This is my new cold weather starting method.
Tomorrow morning, it's supposed to drop down to 20°F, so we'll see how it does at twenty degrees colder.
I got a can of this stuff arrive in the post today.

Just FYI chaps, there's a wee drain hole in the bottom of the air box at the back, might be able to get access to that. (?) not tried it tho)
wonder is there is a spot on the air box thats better than another? TCF shot in the breather inlet hole. seems starting fluid will hang around long enough to allow the operator time to hit the starter no need to hurry IMO. :cheers: PS. Mr.Waz don't auto stores sell starting fluid?
2016 gear up asphalt grey, name Seryy Medved ,Air America CIA circa 1967/8 Vung Tau Viet Nam USS Tutuila ARG-4 (AND JUST A TOUCH OF AGENT ORANGE!)

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Re: Hard starting '14.

Post by Mr Wazzock » Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:05 pm

I think you're asking, why didn't I just go in a store? :lol:

Reason is, most everthing I buy is by online mail order. Occasionally I go in a shop. :D
Mike H
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Re: Hard starting '14.

Post by Mr Wazzock » Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:09 pm

hotflash44 wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:45 pm
wonder is there is a spot on the air box thats better than another? TCF shot in the breather inlet hole. seems starting fluid will hang around long enough to allow the operator time to hit the starter no need to hurry IMO. :cheers:
Putting it on the inlet side of the air filter might be preferable. Altho the destructions say spray into air intake, which is simpler. But I think you're right the stuff will waft all over the interior so don't think it matters much where it went in.
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Re: Hard starting '14.

Post by Tomcatfixer » Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:15 pm

I think we might, at least one person here had new ones? Chad! Was it?
Yes, but I bought mine on the Russian black market. :wink:
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Current rides:
2015 Ural cT "Mobile Chernobyl", 2001 Ural Patrol "The Patrol", 1999 Ural Tourist "The RPOC", 1994 Honda VFR750F

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2007 Honda VTR1000 FireStorm (Super Hawk in U.S.)
2001 Buell Blast! - - - - - - - 2005 Yamaha FJR1300
1993 Honda CBR600F2 - -1984 Yamaha FJ1100
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Re: Hard starting '14.

Post by eastbloc » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:51 pm

Eight hours later, I went for a second ride, it was a balmy 15oF. Tried to start without starting fluid and it wasn't going well. I sprayed a quick, 200ms spray into the airbox and pressed the button and she lit up instantly again.

The nice, fast idle that follows is caused by the fuel aerosol in the airbox. A quick spray is apparently enough to enrich the mixture for time sufficient the bike to achieve operating temperature without stalling. But if you try to ride away before it's warm, the aerosol fog will quickly dissipate, the idle will drop and on acceleration the engine will start stumbling and farting like it usually does if you try do that (even in the warmer temps).
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Re: Hard starting '14.

Post by hotflash44 » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:41 pm

well this proves that sometimes these posts and the brain trust of soviet steeds can work out problems. seems maybe the old trusty ether can will start a finicky cold engine. good going guys! :bow: :cheers:
2016 gear up asphalt grey, name Seryy Medved ,Air America CIA circa 1967/8 Vung Tau Viet Nam USS Tutuila ARG-4 (AND JUST A TOUCH OF AGENT ORANGE!)

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Re: Hard starting '14.

Post by eastbloc » Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:11 pm

Yeah, hurray for Soviet Steeds, for sure. It’s been a pleasure problem solving with you guys. Glad I didn’t impulsively but another Ural.

Now if someone could just fix the powdercoat...
'14 Gear Up
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