Filters

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URAL CT
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Re: Filters

Post by URAL CT » Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:06 pm

file-2.jpg
oil flow diagram
1700274256.jpg
note: sump is below filter
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mtnepracue
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Re: Filters

Post by mtnepracue » Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:29 pm

I do not understand: confuse not the filter itself - but its location?
in extreme cases it may suffer from the impact of the tree stump - and its function is doing perfectly and oil does not affect
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Re: Filters

Post by Snakeoil » Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:00 pm

I had asked a similar question when another member here bought the adapter. I asked if it had a bypass valve in the adapter, thinking that was what is in the OEM oil filter chamber threaded end cap. But now that Steve raises this point, I wonder if it is an anti-drainback valve. If it is, I assume it is a simple poppet valve that releases with oil pressure from the pump. If it were not there, the filter chamber would indeed empty every time the engine was shut down by simply draining downstream in the normal direction of oil flow. But, what I do not recall is at what level the oil feed from the pump to the filter chamber is. In other words, how high relative to the bottom of the chamber is the feed port? We know that the chamber is above the sump level. If the chamber feed is in the top of the chamber, then it will not drain any oil once the level goes below that feed port. But if it is at the bottom of the chamber, it will drain oil out of the chamber via the pump and back into the sump unless there is a check ball in the pump. And I do not belive there is any check valve in the pump because it's a gear pump and there is no oil tank higher than the pump.

I have a bare block in the shop, but no front filter chamber. So, I'm not sure at what lever the oil enters the chamber. If it enters from the bottom, then the discussion above is moot because the ability to drain back thru the pump is there with the stock filter.
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Rob
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Re: Filters

Post by mtnepracue » Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:51 am

And you think of another simple question: is there always oil in chamber, where there is a standard filter paper? No - it just flows out - anti-drainback valve is not there. When we remove the filter at all - the situation will not change. Just getting bigger volume of the chamber. But if you want to - you can put in there something)))
I tell you - manual allows jogging without filter completely
1986 ZiL 157 military truck
1970 К-750 sidecar
1955 М72
1983 Dnepr 10-36
1970 Barkas B 1000 minibus
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..and much more :cheers:

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Re: Filters

Post by Snakeoil » Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:24 pm

mtnepracue wrote:I do not understand: confuse not the filter itself - but its location?
in extreme cases it may suffer from the impact of the tree stump - and its function is doing perfectly and oil does not affect
I think it is more about convenience than anything else. One poster here was complaining about difficultly in changing the OEM filter and that the threaded cover always leaked. He bought the adapter so there was no sense in commenting about his problems. I believe a simple o-ring replacement on the threaded cover would have solved the leak problem.

People tend to get wrapped up in mods with perceived improvements that might not really be there. Look at all the big bore carbs they sell to guys with street bikes. It might increase top end, but it does nothing for the true operating range of a normal street bike. If you live in an area where getting OEM filters is tough, then the adapter letting you use locally obtainable filters would be an improvement for you. But in this day where you can find anything on the web and have it shipped to you, buying a 6-pack of filters should keep you going without delay.

And you make a great point for anyone who has a 2WD rig and offroads the bike. If you look at some of those Ural vids where they are running up roads that look more like a rock quarry than a road, I would tend to agree that a cartridge filter hanging out in the open where it does would present the risk of piercing the filter and losing all your oil before you can say seized engine. For a street rig however, I'd say there is little risk.

Farkles come in many shapes and form and the emotions/reasons that drive their purchase are also as varied. I always equate of lot of these mods to chrome valve covers. When I was a kid, that was something you had to have on your car. Or better yet, a set of finned aluminum valve covers off a Corvette. Now that really improved things. :wink:
Regards,
Rob
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Re: Filters

Post by INSUBORDINATOR » Fri Jan 08, 2016 8:22 pm

Wow long discussion. I'm the poster who likes the spin on filter adapter for my road bike. The only way I could get my old set up to stop leaking was gluing the plug in, new 0 rings didn't help. So far the new adapter isn't leaking, & it is absodamnlutely more convenient, & it works, & my filters are cheap & plentiful, I might even change them in between oil changes - its sooo easy. I don't understand why the big critique? I thought you were going to make one for yourself Snakeoil?
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Re: Filters

Post by URAL CT » Fri Jan 08, 2016 8:48 pm

Howdy INSUB...what oil filter are you using on the adapter? Just need the vehicle reference. Thanks!
Will be getting an adapter next week but will have to remove & plug the crossover ports. I think you did a write up on this. My search-fu is kinda weak :oops:
I like getting all needed materials on hand before I start doing the work. :mrgreen:
Cheers,
Charlie T
CT
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Re: Filters

Post by Snakeoil » Sat Jan 09, 2016 1:27 pm

Insub, did not mean to come across as negative, at least not regarding you and your mod. Yes, I considered making one for my rig. But mine is a road only rig. For me would would have been convenience and nothing more. I do believe it is not an appropriate mod for an offroad rig for the reasons stated. Yes, you get a little more oil and perhaps a tad more cooling. But given the very limited effects of a deep sump WRT additional oil cooling, I'd say the cartridge filter cooling properties are very small.

I cannot understand why your OEM plug would not seal, yet the adapter seals. The plug must have been damaged in some way such that oil could get around the o-ring seal. The adapter uses the same sealing mechanism so it had to be the old plug. Might have been fixable with some smoothing or perhaps an epoxy patch to fill a gouge.

I don't think this mod does any harm and in your case solved two problems for you, the leak and your preference for an filter that is a bit easier to change. But if someone is on a limited budget and looking to spend money to make their engine better, I'd say that the money is better spent elsewhere.

Given the splash nature of a majority of the lubrication process, I wonder if it would be beneficial to have a pair of ports on the adapter to take the oil thru an oil cooler. I think that might be a worthy upgrade, especially for those who off-road and run at lower speeds in hot weather such that the engine does not see a lot of airflow over the heads and jugs. But, I'd want to measure engine temps before and after to see if it really made a difference to head temps given they are splash fed. And if air flow across the engine is low, so will flow thru the cooler. If it does cool the oil, It might help given the residence time of the oil as it trickles back to the sump. It should also help improve oil life a bit. And again, only measuring will say for sure.
Regards,
Rob
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40 Pilots, 122 Mains
Before you say something stupid, always ask yourself, "What would Harpo say?".

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Re: Filters

Post by Ragmanx1 » Sat Jan 09, 2016 11:08 pm

Why not just buy the paper Russian filters online.

They are cheap and easy to insert, and be done with it for another 2500kms.
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Re: Filters

Post by INSUBORDINATOR » Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:04 pm

stevesdniper wrote:Why should I not ask a simple question??....will it siphon or wont it???...it will as the oil inlet is below the filter cavity...therefore it will siphon and as far as I can see, a fact, that will lead to a process similar to oil Hydrolisation, which will destroy bearings...
VERY HAPPY WITH MINE- BEST ACCESORY I BOUGHT @ $70. Delivered. American filters have a rubber one way flap valve - SO THEY DONT BACK UP.
It also allows the use of 1/3 pint more oil. When I reviewed it several people complained it could get knocked off - OFF road. Mine is on a tourist & sits behind the stiff mud/rock deflector. still there & serving me well.
I highly recommend it unless you have a crossover, or 2-into 1 exhaust.

Hope that Helps, C.
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URAL CT
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Re: Filters

Post by URAL CT » Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:04 pm

I'm with INSUB on this, no problem encountered so far. Although I have a 2WD, I took the SC driveshaft out cuz "no mo' off roading for this doode". Rode the rig to Colorado & back...no problem! If there was gonna be oil starvation, it'd have happened then. The Ural was pulling 55-60 mph for hours. I ride about180 to 200 kms before gassing up...I scoot tankful to tankful. :moto: :moto: :moto: 250 miles per day has always been my goal when on a trip.
The plus side: it is easier for this 71 yo doode :old: to change oil filter now. It is more of a convenience for me rather than anything else. I ride the interstate & main highways most of the time, so large road debris are kinda rare. I do not travel when it gets dark & always plan not to be caught riding at night. I'm retired...I'm in no hurry to get anywhere. :mrgreen: YMMV
CT
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