If you had to choose

Are ya having a problem with your rig? We'll try to help. Share your tech tips and experiences here. Dr. Billy Glaser, author of the "Unofficial 750 Ural Service Manual" site myural.com, is moderating this section.
Forum rules
Here is the place for you to ask questions about or share your experiences about servicing or repairing your Ural or Dnepr. Please post topics concering modifications or accesories in the "Modifications and Acessories" section. Please post oil related questions in the "Oil Threads" section.
Post Reply
User avatar
Marco
Party Member
Party Member
Posts: 115
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:19 pm
Location: Minnesota

If you had to choose

Post by Marco » Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:10 am

So no matter what I do I get no automatic advance of timing when rpm's get up to and over 3500.
I am going to set timing manually to an advanced degree and run with it but not sure what degree of advance would get best all around performance while not over taxing the motor.

So if you had to pick one setting to run with, what degree advance would you likely choose?

Thanks again,
Marco
2012 Gear Up "Anichka"
19,000 Km

"My mother never breast fed me, she told me she only liked me as a friend."
Rodney Dangerfield

User avatar
BlueRockCrawler
Comrade General
Comrade General
Posts: 595
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:56 am
Location: Delaware

Re: If you had to choose

Post by BlueRockCrawler » Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:36 pm

I'd choose to fix the problem. There's a good reason that the timing is supposed to advance with the revs. If you advance it too far, you're going to burn the pistons up or twist a crank and have starting difficulty, if you're too retarded, it's going to burn the valves up. I know it's not answering your question, but you're riding a bike that's not functioning properly. Best to get it sorted out before you ride it and cause repair costs to rise exponentially.
2015 Ural Patrol
1993 Suzuki DR 650
2018 Suzuki DR 650
previous Honda's were
1996 750 Magna
2002 750 shadow A.C.E.
2004 919
1985 500 Magna

User avatar
Marco
Party Member
Party Member
Posts: 115
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:19 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: If you had to choose

Post by Marco » Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:21 pm

Has there ever been a time when auto advance was not built into the Ural or where someone here had no auto advance?

I don't like the idea of riding it with any unsolved issue that could come back to haunt me. That's why I got into all this when it had no guts in 4th gear and thought it would be solved by now with some basic upkeep. Never thought it would be something so strange.
2012 Gear Up "Anichka"
19,000 Km

"My mother never breast fed me, she told me she only liked me as a friend."
Rodney Dangerfield

rougaroo
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Posts: 3800
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:58 am
Location: NC

Re: If you had to choose

Post by rougaroo » Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:22 pm

+1 to fixing the problem.

Too much advance on an air cooled engine will overheat the engine and send you on the road to the Holy Piston Club.

There is some reason for this, we just haven't found it yet.

Rougaroo
2003 Tourist - lotsa upgrades
2004 Troyka - work in progress

rivers
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Posts: 9555
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:04 pm
Location: 48*N, 122*W

Re: If you had to choose

Post by rivers » Sat Sep 14, 2019 2:24 pm

I'd choose to fix the problem.
+2
Guess wrong...bad juju happens. As in: won't start at all or worse you destroy pistons. :( You've been messing around with this for too long and you're on what, 2nd ign system? Odds that both are defunct is likely really slim. I'm no ign expert but I'd start looking at non-normal explanations. Is your eng stock/original or had any major repairs by the PO? I think it was prior to 2012 but "heard" some replacement flywheels had wrong timing marks or non at all. For "me" my next step would be to put a degree wheel on the crank and verify the timing mark locations. If wrong, punch new correct marks. Longshot but it doesn't cost much and and won't hurt anything. Cheaper than to keep buying new ign systems.
Next step would be to search out a pro Ural mech. Don't know if IMWA has a phone tech help dept but I'd try calling them for ideas. Maybe call one of the old time established dealers that really know Urals well, Crawford, Holopaw, Heindl's can offer suggestions. Your timing doesn't need to be checked at 3,500 RPM. It should be fully advanced by 2,000 or so. If it wasn't it'd run like crap at 3500+ in any gear not just 4th. If I had to wing it/guess and choose just one timing setting, I'd go with "slightly advanced" or non rather than too much or retarded. It'd run at less than optimum power but at least it'd start and run w/o risk of blowing a piston. Not ideal for sure so figure out and fix the problem not bandaid the symptom. Not directed at you but I'm no pro so in my case... I would never rule out mechanics(me) procedural error. :(
Joe
014 GU
"I'm lost but I'm making good time."

User avatar
windmill
Order of Victory
Order of Victory
Posts: 7593
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:17 am
Location: Kent, Wa

Re: If you had to choose

Post by windmill » Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:09 pm

Pay $ now, or pay $$$$ later.
Barry

"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills".

2007 Patrol 100k km and counting,
2018 M70

User avatar
Marco
Party Member
Party Member
Posts: 115
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:19 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: If you had to choose

Post by Marco » Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:09 pm

I did call and talk to Terry for quite a while and he suggested I run through all the things I had already done and I have with no change. He had no new suggestions. Talked for long time with man at raceway and at PA with no new insights. Mechanic on other side of Minneapolis won't discuss over phone and want to see it, which I might have to trailer it in but I believe in you guys on here and will wait a little longer. Claus said I should mark 72mm before TDC and I did that per his method and never even got timing mark much out of viewing hole when timing bike. Checked TDC with chopstick as instructed by member here and it was dead on. Valves checked and rechecked repeatedly per online video by a member of this forum. Air and fuel systems all cleaned and good. Ran in prime and with no air filter: no change. I don't think it is ignition either but just can't find anything else.
I'm not a mechanic so I can't think of anything beyond what I've done except different brand ignition. I don't really want to do it or pay for it.

I'll run it at just a small advance over timing mark for some short stretches and see if anything changes.

Thanks folks!
2012 Gear Up "Anichka"
19,000 Km

"My mother never breast fed me, she told me she only liked me as a friend."
Rodney Dangerfield

User avatar
BlueRockCrawler
Comrade General
Comrade General
Posts: 595
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:56 am
Location: Delaware

Re: If you had to choose

Post by BlueRockCrawler » Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:34 pm

I have an EFI bike, are the carbies vacuum advance? If so, look very closely at them and all the fittings. Maybe go pick up a cheap hand vacuum pump from Harbor freight and see if hooking that up works the advance feature.
2015 Ural Patrol
1993 Suzuki DR 650
2018 Suzuki DR 650
previous Honda's were
1996 750 Magna
2002 750 shadow A.C.E.
2004 919
1985 500 Magna

User avatar
Marco
Party Member
Party Member
Posts: 115
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:19 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: If you had to choose

Post by Marco » Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:08 am

When working properly, what does cause the timing to advance.
If I knew what the source of a correctly advancing timing was then I would have a better idea where to look.

Does anyone know exactly what triggers the auto advance timing??
2012 Gear Up "Anichka"
19,000 Km

"My mother never breast fed me, she told me she only liked me as a friend."
Rodney Dangerfield

Post Reply