DISASTER! Averted

Are ya having a problem with your rig? We'll try to help. Share your tech tips and experiences here. Dr. Billy Glaser, author of the "Unofficial 750 Ural Service Manual" site myural.com, is moderating this section.
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Here is the place for you to ask questions about or share your experiences about servicing or repairing your Ural or Dnepr. Please post topics concering modifications or accesories in the "Modifications and Acessories" section. Please post oil related questions in the "Oil Threads" section.
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n3303j
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Re: DISASTER!

Post by n3303j » Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:49 am

I'll repeat myself again. BMW uses 25 ft/lb on all their vintage engines of similar construction. Most of the engines are greater horsepower and higher performance. They stay oil and leak free if all work is done in a craftsman like manner. They don't strip out of the block until someone tries to stop a leak with over tightening.

Tell your guy that you want the insert to be the full length of the thread in the block, not just the length of the thread stud. Might as well have as many aluminum threads as possible sharing the load. Also suggest he makes the insert out of a good quality section of bolt (socket head cap screw or 10.9 bolt). It will be stronger than most threaded rods. Install the insert into a thoroughly clean bore with RC-680 Loctite.

That should get it done right proper.
Ron Cichowski

1998 Moto Guzzi V11 EV STOCK
1996/2014 Ural Sportsman.
Severely Upgraded, Modified and Remanufactured.
1977 Moto Guzzi 850 T3-FB ALMOST STOCK

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phliparoonie
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Re: DISASTER!

Post by phliparoonie » Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:46 am

Good points, Ron.
Thread hijack: do you have photos of your Guzzi's somewhere?
It is important to keep an open mind. But not so much that your brain falls out. Carl Sagan
I am old, but I'm happy. Cat Stevens
It's a tractor, not a Ferrari. Holopaw Gene

2004 Tourist "Charlie" 25,036 km - 18/04/24
stock: pipes, carbs, airbox, fuel petcock, tractor seat
new/add: windscreen,hack headlight,4 head stud holes,pistons,rings,starter,FD splined hub,clutch actuator bearing, clutch arm,donut,drive shaft,Ducati ignition,tank xover dscnect

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phliparoonie
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Re: DISASTER! Averted

Post by phliparoonie » Fri Aug 05, 2016 6:40 am

:boogie: Cylinder back from the machine shop with repaired mounting surface. Pulled out keyed inserts removed and replaced with longer, self-tapping units. All reassembled last night. Torqued to 29 ft. lbs. Photos coming later. PLUS new thread on Type VII ignition (post 2013 Ducati) install and timing coming soon.
It is important to keep an open mind. But not so much that your brain falls out. Carl Sagan
I am old, but I'm happy. Cat Stevens
It's a tractor, not a Ferrari. Holopaw Gene

2004 Tourist "Charlie" 25,036 km - 18/04/24
stock: pipes, carbs, airbox, fuel petcock, tractor seat
new/add: windscreen,hack headlight,4 head stud holes,pistons,rings,starter,FD splined hub,clutch actuator bearing, clutch arm,donut,drive shaft,Ducati ignition,tank xover dscnect

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n3303j
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Re: DISASTER!

Post by n3303j » Tue Aug 09, 2016 1:47 am

phliparoonie wrote:Good points, Ron.
Thread hijack: do you have photos of your Guzzi's somewhere?
V11EV.jpg
1998 V11EV 40 Liter Bags
Pretty much stock (after I removed farkles added by PO)
Great way to eat up the miles (must do something about the stock seat!) It will take me anywhere I wish to go in luxury and comfort. It's probably the one that will get me to Florida this November.
850T3.jpg
Kinda stock (changed bars, saddle, headlight ears, added rear rack, custom Wixom bag mounts and National Plexifairing 3)
Great work horse. Shows some of the 82,000 miles and tank wrinkles after a high-side event. But with the Ghilardoni Nigusil cylinders compression and oil consumption are perfect. Super in town but has no problems going the distance. Easy remove windscreen for those hot days. Enough luggage and rack space to cover a week camping (and then find a laundromat)
If I could only own one two wheeler this would be it.

If I could have only one "bike" it would be my Ural. The Ural will be the one I ride after infirmity wins.
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Ron Cichowski

1998 Moto Guzzi V11 EV STOCK
1996/2014 Ural Sportsman.
Severely Upgraded, Modified and Remanufactured.
1977 Moto Guzzi 850 T3-FB ALMOST STOCK

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phliparoonie
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Re: DISASTER! Averted

Post by phliparoonie » Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:33 am

Thanks for posting the Guzzi pics, Ron.
Is the blue one faster :lol:
It is important to keep an open mind. But not so much that your brain falls out. Carl Sagan
I am old, but I'm happy. Cat Stevens
It's a tractor, not a Ferrari. Holopaw Gene

2004 Tourist "Charlie" 25,036 km - 18/04/24
stock: pipes, carbs, airbox, fuel petcock, tractor seat
new/add: windscreen,hack headlight,4 head stud holes,pistons,rings,starter,FD splined hub,clutch actuator bearing, clutch arm,donut,drive shaft,Ducati ignition,tank xover dscnect

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GHGoodwin
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Re: DISASTER!

Post by GHGoodwin » Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:59 am

n3303j wrote:If I could have only one "bike" it would be my Ural. The Ural will be the one I ride after infirmity wins.
I have crossed that line. No regrets and a lot of fond memories.
Hal

2011/12 Tourist - "The Russian"
It's a long list.
2014 Patrol - "Blackbird"

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phliparoonie
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Re: DISASTER! Averted

Post by phliparoonie » Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:08 am

Here's some pics of the repairs.
Welcome to my squalid working conditions.
The shop_sml.jpg
Here the top rear stud hole with the self-tapping insert and stud installed. Found out Fastenal does not carry this type of insert anymore.
top rear insert with stud small.jpg
Corresponding repair to the surface of the cylinder flange. Note the knurling the machinist added. He counterbored the cylinder flange, machined the insert to 0.001, bored it out to 10 mm and tapped it home. He also used red Loctite
top rear esurface cylinder_sml.jpg
This is the bottom front insert.
bottom front insert_sml.jpg
Grief was involved when the install of it stopped with 1-1/2 thread proud to the surface of the engine block. Much wailing and gnashing of teeth until the machinist suggested using a cuttoff wheel and grinding stone set in a Dremel tool. I fabricated this grinding shield from the side of an oil bottle. Note the gouging in its surface. pretty scary.
Grinding shield_sml.jpg
Bottom front hole with stud installed.
bottom front insert with stud_small.jpg
Corresponding repair to the surface of the cylinder flange.
bottom front resurfaced cylinder_sml.jpg
I didn't copper the base gasket the last time I installed a new one (ring job), and wish I had. Lots of tedious scrapping with soft tools.
coppered base gasket_sml.jpg
One of my "favorite" tools. Very nerve wracking taking it off and not damaging the gasket.
ring compressor_02_sml.jpg
Loctited the studs into new/original holes, installed the jug, head gasket, head, torqued the head bolts to 29 ft lbs, set to TDC, adjusted the valves to 0.004, put on the valve cover, changed oil and filter and took it for a test ride. No oil leaking from the base of the left cylinder for the first time in a long time.

Thanks to everyone for help and encouragement along the way.
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It is important to keep an open mind. But not so much that your brain falls out. Carl Sagan
I am old, but I'm happy. Cat Stevens
It's a tractor, not a Ferrari. Holopaw Gene

2004 Tourist "Charlie" 25,036 km - 18/04/24
stock: pipes, carbs, airbox, fuel petcock, tractor seat
new/add: windscreen,hack headlight,4 head stud holes,pistons,rings,starter,FD splined hub,clutch actuator bearing, clutch arm,donut,drive shaft,Ducati ignition,tank xover dscnect

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JPanyon
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Re: DISASTER! Averted

Post by JPanyon » Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:14 pm

Be happy that you kept the re-torque to 29 lbs. BMW and even Chevrolet kept their aluminum block head bolt figures at or below this figure on their 1960's engines. Did Ural think their aluminum was better quality than the Germans or Americans? 36 ft/lbs works out to be roughly 25% higher than the German and American engineers considered to be safe, and I think the feedback from users of this site over the years has shown who was correct, and who wasn't. I'm sticking with the 28-29 ft/lbs maximum head bolt torque (wet) as the limit. Its worked on my Corvairs, VWs, BMWs and now my Ural.

With Appreciation to all SS Uralists....
John Panyon,,,Biking since 1961 on wheels left behind but never forgotten
1948 Indian Chief, 1954 Harley Police Special, 1965 BSA Rocket Lightning, 1972 BMW R75 /5, 1975 Norton Commando, 1977 BMW R100 /7 with "Unobtanium" accessories

2002 Ural BC 1st year 750, my unofficial pickup truck for delivering groceries to the disabled.
My Hack Monkey, (rescued from an Animal Shelter).... https://youtu.be/p7pC38IvvoM

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