No spark. Type IV ignition

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T-Bone
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No spark. Type IV ignition

Post by T-Bone » Thu Jan 01, 2015 11:24 am

I have 12v at the blue wire at the coil. I have the blinking red light in the ignition module when I kick the engine over. I have it timed correctly and I've replaced the rotor for the one piece unit. Any ideas as to why I have no spark?
Is it possible to test the type IV unit? Just because I have a blinking red light I'm still not assuming its working correctly.
How do you test the coil? Do they simply go open circuit or how do they fail?
Last edited by T-Bone on Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: No spark. Type IV ignition

Post by DanKearney » Thu Jan 01, 2015 11:30 am

Check out this thread:

http://www.sovietsteeds.com/forums/view ... 1&start=15

On page two there are some instrucitions:
Checking the Ural coil is four basic steps, and is done with an Ohmmeter or Multi-meter set to check continuity in the 20 Ohm range. . .
Cheers,

Dan K.

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Re: No spark. Type IV ignition

Post by T-Bone » Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:08 pm

Cheers Dan

Test 1 between the primary windings showed 1 ohm and
test 2 between the secondary windings showed 10000 ohms.
So I'm guessing its safe to assume my coil is shot?
If is is shot, what would make the secondary windings go almost open circuit like that?
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Re: No spark. Type IV ignition

Post by JPanyon » Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:05 pm

The factory "new" coils in the first years of the 750 engine were of marginal quality. The factory bolt-in replacement units are much better. If you want the "best" (but more expensive), get a Harley dual output coil from any of their electronic ignition systems. It will need to be mounted externally, as they typically will not fit beneath the engine's front cover. Then use silicon sealant on the coil connectors to discourage moisture contamination.

My original '02 coil (Type IV ignition) lasted less than 3 years. The Russian replacement has been running 9 years, strong, ever since.
John Panyon,,,Biking since 1961 on wheels left behind but never forgotten
1948 Indian Chief, 1954 Harley Police Special, 1965 BSA Rocket Lightning, 1972 BMW R75 /5, 1975 Norton Commando, 1977 BMW R100 /7 with "Unobtanium" accessories

2002 Ural BC 1st year 750, my unofficial pickup truck for delivering groceries to the disabled.
My Hack Monkey, (rescued from an Animal Shelter).... https://youtu.be/p7pC38IvvoM

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Re: No spark. Type IV ignition

Post by T-Bone » Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:02 am

Thanks.

Before I go and splash out on a new coil I wanna make sure my coil is shot for sure.
I'm still not certain that my type IV ignition is working even though it has the blinking red light.

Does anybody have a known working coil lying around anywhere that they could measure resistance
across both primary and secondary windings with the LT and HT wires unattached so that
I could compare readings with my coil?
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No spark. Type IV ignition

Post by blissamerica » Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:23 am

Your coil is shot. The meter never lies
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Amateurs practice until they get it right. Professionals Practice until they can't get it wrong.

And then there's IMZ-URAL...

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Re: No spark. Type IV ignition

Post by T-Bone » Sat Jan 03, 2015 12:10 pm

Thanks
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Re: No spark. Type IV ignition

Post by Scott » Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:56 pm

There's a couple things that can go wrong.
1. Either the primary or secondary windings can go open, or
2. The primary or secondary winding shorts to itself. In automotive applications, primary to secondary is probably around 1:100, so for instance, in the event that that coating rubs off the wire at two points on the secondary, you could wind up with a 1:10 ratio. You'd likely never be able to detect this with a multi-meter, because continuity is continuity regardless whether it passes through 100 feet of wire or 10 feet of wire (actually, it could be done with "resistivity" formulas, but I'm way too drunk to for that).
However, in my experience, the Type V that I use has been pretty much bulletproof, except for the crappy spade connectors at the coil. I feel this is probably the only weak point of the Type IV/V ignitions. I have constant problems with mine, but I'm too lazy to solder them on, but it is always fixable with a little more crimping or wiggling until the next time.
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Re: No spark. Type IV ignition

Post by haribotagada » Sun Jan 04, 2015 4:39 am

Hi,

I believe I have the same problem as T-Bone, i.e. a dead coil. Was on my way back from work when the Ural started stuttering intermittently a few times about 5 kms into the ride, then worked again quite smoothly for about 10 more minutes. Just as I was about to get onto a hill (opening the throttle a bit more) the engine stopped to a halt. Battery, fuses and spark plugs are fine but I can't get any sparks.

I took the coil out to check if this is the cause of the problem, however electricity is definitely not my forte :( . What should be the normal reading for a good coil on the primary and secondary windings?

I am getting the following readings:
- Primary coil (between the small black and white cable): 0.7 Ohms
- Secondary coil (between the two plugs where the spark plug wires go): 2190 Ohms (2.19kΩ)

According to Chris on this thread http://www.sovietsteeds.com/forums/view ... 1&start=15, the primary should be around 5-10 omhs, and the secondary no more than 20 ohms.

Is my coil definitely dead?

Here's a picture so you can tell me If I'm doing this wrong!

http://i.imgur.com/7mpB48z.jpg


Thanks for the help!

JP

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Re: No spark. Type IV ignition

Post by dneprlover » Sun Jan 04, 2015 7:18 am

T-Bone wrote:Thanks.

Before I go and splash out on a new coil I wanna make sure my coil is shot for sure.
I'm still not certain that my type IV ignition is working even though it has the blinking red light.

Does anybody have a known working coil lying around anywhere that they could measure resistance
across both primary and secondary windings with the LT and HT wires unattached so that
I could compare readings with my coil?


Methinks some of the crap talked about Russian coils is recycled by people who simply have not got a clue
Last edited by dneprlover on Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: No spark. Type IV ignition

Post by T-Bone » Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:16 pm

dneprlover wrote:
I do have 5 x 135-3705 new coils on the bench in front of me now, these are as supplied in the kits with type II and III ignition units
All meter out at round the 1 ohm primary circuit and 10000 ohm secondary circuit as they should do. I do not have a 135-3702-A2 to test but the spec for that shows 5 ohm primary

Methinks some of the crap talked about Russian coils is recycled by people who simply have not got a clue
Thanks for measuring those for me.

It would appear in that case that my coil is fine!
That then leads me onto my type IV ignition unit.
Is there any way of testing the output pulse from that?
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Re: No spark. Type IV ignition

Post by T-Bone » Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:21 pm

haribotagada wrote:
I am getting the following readings:
- Primary coil (between the small black and white cable): 0.7 Ohms
- Secondary coil (between the two plugs where the spark plug wires go): 2190 Ohms (2.19kΩ)

According to Chris on this thread http://www.sovietsteeds.com/forums/view ... 1&start=15, the primary should be around 5-10 omhs, and the secondary no more than 20 ohms.

Is my coil definitely dead?

Here's a picture so you can tell me If I'm doing this wrong!
I don't know if your coil is ok or not but you are reading your meter correctly as far as I
can make out.
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Re: No spark. Type IV ignition

Post by T-Bone » Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:16 pm

Update. Got a replacement 'under tank coil kit' from F2 in the UK
and the motor is running again. :D

Now my starter motor has gone short.
This Ural simply amazes me. As soon as I fix something, something else breaks.
I've had about 20 motorcycles in my life and I think I can honestly say that I've spent
more time repairing my Ural than all of my other bikes put together. :?

On the positive side I've probably learned more about motorcycle mechanics from my Ural
than all my other bikes put together. :)
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Re: No spark. Type IV ignition

Post by JPanyon » Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:52 am

Glad you got that coil situation resolved, and that you went with an externally mounted solution. Please add some silicon sealant to the coil connections to prevent water incursion from stalling your rig during inclement weather.

Now: starter motor issues; search for "Ernie" postings, and you'll find some excellent step-by-step "How To...." instructional materials specifically aimed at starter motor issues. You'll be hard pressed to find better, anywhere. I'd also suggest you start a new thread on this issue, to gain sharper focus from the readership here.

Best Wishes
John Panyon,,,Biking since 1961 on wheels left behind but never forgotten
1948 Indian Chief, 1954 Harley Police Special, 1965 BSA Rocket Lightning, 1972 BMW R75 /5, 1975 Norton Commando, 1977 BMW R100 /7 with "Unobtanium" accessories

2002 Ural BC 1st year 750, my unofficial pickup truck for delivering groceries to the disabled.
My Hack Monkey, (rescued from an Animal Shelter).... https://youtu.be/p7pC38IvvoM

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Re: No spark. Type IV ignition

Post by Brian Crean » Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:44 am

For future reference: A quick way to tell if your coil is putting out spark is to pull your plugs, lay them on the jugs, and/or if necessary run a ground wire, then kick or e-start, and watch for a healthy spark. Cheap is GOOD!

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