My Dnepr MT-11 Story

Are ya having a problem with your rig? We'll try to help. Share your tech tips and experiences here. Dr. Billy Glaser, author of the "Unofficial 750 Ural Service Manual" site myural.com, is moderating this section.
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propwash
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Re: My Dnepr MT-11 Story

Post by propwash » Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:12 pm

Congrats!

Most problems with these, if mechanically is in some form of running condition, is electrical. Wiring, timing, battery etc.
I can see your charging light is illuminated.

Just to balance your random parts exchange -
My MT11 is approaching 100k kms.
Original K65T carbs - never rebuilt, on the second o-ring/washers (whatever the english will agree) on the needle valves
Original coil, points ignition
Original spark plug caps (as pictured above)

Runs wonderfully, 1-2 kicks even after sitting.

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Re: My Dnepr MT-11 Story

Post by Orangecicle » Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:23 pm

dneprlover wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:03 pm
Please. whilst it's running, Check the charging voltage at the battery. 14.2-14.4 volts is about right. Otherwise you obviously need to sort the carbs and do a check on the ignition timing. Maximum advance is 36 degrees but that is verging on trouble. Set 34-35 , preferably nearer to 5 than 4.

Now it is up to you.

And remember, it is an old engine design built to old standards, it will use oil. Much more than any Jap bike, more akin to a 1950s Harley.
Will do on the alternator. The idiot light is on, so I'll just have to see how healthy it is.

The last thing I timed with a light was a 1969 Mustang, and that was in the late '80s. All I've seen on the Dnepr is one mark on the flywheel. What tells you 34-35°??? Less than fully informed minds want to know. :?

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Re: My Dnepr MT-11 Story

Post by Orangecicle » Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:32 pm

propwash wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:12 pm
Congrats!

Most problems with these, if mechanically is in some form of running condition, is electrical. Wiring, timing, battery etc.
I can see your charging light is illuminated.

Just to balance your random parts exchange -
My MT11 is approaching 100k kms.
Original K65T carbs - never rebuilt, on the second o-ring/washers (whatever the english will agree) on the needle valves
Original coil, points ignition
Original spark plug caps (as pictured above)

Runs wonderfully, 1-2 kicks even after sitting.
I know. The thing reminds me so much of my old '73 Volkswagon Beetle in that it was so simple that hardly anything could go wrong with it. You just set the valves regularly and changed the oil. {And made sure the belt was tight.} I'm looking forward to the day that my MT-11 is as stable as yours. I think it will get there quickly now.

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Re: My Dnepr MT-11 Story

Post by dneprlover » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:09 am

Orangecicle wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:23 pm
dneprlover wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:03 pm

Will do on the alternator. The idiot light is on, so I'll just have to see how healthy it is.

The last thing I timed with a light was a 1969 Mustang, and that was in the late '80s. All I've seen on the Dnepr is one mark on the flywheel. What tells you 34-35°??? Less than fully informed minds want to know. :?
If you have an all metal regulator box, the charging light may well stay on with a good charging system. A plastic ( bakalite) one the light should be off. forgive me but I've forgotten part numbers that I used to quote off the top of my head. Check it anyway.

There are 2 marks on the flywheel viewable through the port on the left hand side of the engine. Make sure the bike is in neutral, remove spark plugs , kneel by the bike and view through the port. Now tap the kickstarter down with the palm of your hand and watch the flywheel revolve . Do it very slowly.
The first mark to come into view is the 'P' marl. this is timing at full advance . it is marked ABOUT 36 degrees BTDC and when lined up with the mark on the viewing port will be about this figure but from experience, I don't always trust it. When the 'P' mark is just visible in the bottom of the port, this will be about 34 degrees . halfway between mark and bottom will be about 35 degrees. Strobe light is not really required if points opening is set in between these points with bob weights expanded. I doubt very much whether any Russian owners even had access to one and the bike wasn't designed to require one. They were made for Wilderness maintainance with basic tools.
Now carry on revolving the flywheel very slowly and another mark should come into view. This is 'B' and is TDC for setting valve gaps. It will be 2-1/2" to 3" above the 'P' mark

Flywheel marks on Dneprs are sometimes marked very faintly and are a devil to spot. If this is the case, locate them and put a small centrepunch dot to make the mark stand out.
Neval BMW/MT11 800cc hybrid, Neval 2wd MT10-36, Neval standard MT10-36, Neval MT16, another MT11, BMW/MB650 hybrid , K750m and an MB750 with locking diff.

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Re: My Dnepr MT-11 Story

Post by dneprlover » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:11 am

Orangecicle wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:23 pm
dneprlover wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:03 pm

Will do on the alternator. The idiot light is on, so I'll just have to see how healthy it is.

The last thing I timed with a light was a 1969 Mustang, and that was in the late '80s. All I've seen on the Dnepr is one mark on the flywheel. What tells you 34-35°??? Less than fully informed minds want to know. :?


If you have an all metal regulator box, the charging light may well stay on with a good charging system. A plastic ( bakalite) one the light should be off. forgive me but I've forgotten part numbers that I used to quote off the top of my head. Check it anyway.

There are 2 marks on the flywheel viewable through the port on the left hand side of the engine. Make sure the bike is in neutral, remove spark plugs , kneel by the bike and view through the port. Now tap the kickstarter down with the palm of your hand and watch the flywheel revolve . Do it very slowly.
The first mark to come into view is the 'P' marl. this is timing at full advance . it is marked ABOUT 36 degrees BTDC and when lined up with the mark on the viewing port will be about this figure but from experience, I don't always trust it. When the 'P' mark is just visible in the bottom of the port, this will be about 34 degrees . halfway between mark and bottom will be about 35 degrees. Strobe light is not really required if points opening is set in between these points with bob weights expanded. I doubt very much whether any Russian owners even had access to one and the bike wasn't designed to require one. They were made for Wilderness maintainance with basic tools.
Now carry on revolving the flywheel very slowly and another mark should come into view. This is 'B' and is TDC for setting valve gaps. It will be 2-1/2" to 3" above the 'P' mark

Flywheel marks on Dneprs are sometimes marked very faintly and are a devil to spot. If this is the case, locate them and put a small centrepunch dot to make the mark stand out.
Neval BMW/MT11 800cc hybrid, Neval 2wd MT10-36, Neval standard MT10-36, Neval MT16, another MT11, BMW/MB650 hybrid , K750m and an MB750 with locking diff.

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Re: My Dnepr MT-11 Story

Post by Orangecicle » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:31 am

dneprlover wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:11 am
If you have an all metal regulator box, the charging light may well stay on with a good charging system. A plastic ( bakalite) one the light should be off. forgive me but I've forgotten part numbers that I used to quote off the top of my head. Check it anyway.

There are 2 marks on the flywheel viewable through the port on the left hand side of the engine. Make sure the bike is in neutral, remove spark plugs , kneel by the bike and view through the port. Now tap the kickstarter down with the palm of your hand and watch the flywheel revolve . Do it very slowly.
The first mark to come into view is the 'P' marl. this is timing at full advance . it is marked ABOUT 36 degrees BTDC and when lined up with the mark on the viewing port will be about this figure but from experience, I don't always trust it. When the 'P' mark is just visible in the bottom of the port, this will be about 34 degrees . halfway between mark and bottom will be about 35 degrees. Strobe light is not really required if points opening is set in between these points with bob weights expanded. I doubt very much whether any Russian owners even had access to one and the bike wasn't designed to require one. They were made for Wilderness maintainance with basic tools.
Now carry on revolving the flywheel very slowly and another mark should come into view. This is 'B' and is TDC for setting valve gaps. It will be 2-1/2" to 3" above the 'P' mark

Flywheel marks on Dneprs are sometimes marked very faintly and are a devil to spot. If this is the case, locate them and put a small centrepunch dot to make the mark stand out.
I'll look closely for the flywheel marks. All I've ever seen is the one mark, which maybe is the BTDC timing mark. I'll look again.

My regulator is metal. Assuming the alternator is OK, is there a way to force the red light off? Fabric electrical tape fixed the charcoal canister light on my old BMW 3 series I had in the 1980s. :roll:

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Re: My Dnepr MT-11 Story

Post by Orangecicle » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:26 pm

Well, I totally whiffed on the timing marks. I set valves on the timing mark and not TDC. Here's the BTDC mark:

Image

. . . and the TDC mark:

Image

Regardless, the valves were very close even though set on the wrong mark. Now off to timing. I'm going to try the Russian method of timing with a bit of tissue paper. I'll let you know how that goes.

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Re: My Dnepr MT-11 Story

Post by Orangecicle » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:44 pm

So, setting the points the Russian way worked very well. First, I removed the front of the timing advance mechanism on the cam -- the little arm under the bolt. Then I rotated the rest of the mechanism around so that it was on a high point and opening the points. I set the points to 0.5mm (in the middle of the factory recommended 0.4 - 0.6mm). I then replaced the arm that goes on the timing advance mechanism (making sure that the space showing the springs left a rectangle shaped opening, as the other way is backwards) and replaced the bolt that goes in the cam. I set the engine to the timing mark and, per dneprlover's suggestion, put the mark near the bottom of the window. (As I understand it, this is protecting the engine by avoiding maximum recommended advance.)

After all of that, I loosened the three screws on the plate that holds the points and inserted a thin bit of paper in the points. I used a screwdriver to swing the weights out on the advance mechanism to get maximum advance and then I rotated the timing plate until I could slip the paper out of the points with quite a bit of friction. Then, I just locked everything down tight and checked with the paper one more time. Once I was satisfied, I buttoned everything up. It ran perfectly after just a couple of kicks.

Dneprlover, I also checked the alternator output. It was 13.94ish volts with a little throttle applied. So, it might be a little lower than desired, but it's functioning and close to spec.

I checked final drive and tranny. I'm very low on transmission oil. Like, very low. I don't want to start one of "those" threads on tranny oil, but is there a decent recommendation for transmission oil? Would the Valvoline 20W50 I used in the engine work for tranny as well? The final drive was overfull. I'm guessing it would be appropriate to run gear oil in the final drive, but lead me in the right direction, oh Wisdom of the Forum!

Oh, one last thing. The blinker blinks fairly normal on the left, but the sidecar lights blink . . . every now and again -- like once every 10 seconds . . . maybe. Can't figure out why one side would flash about normal and the other would act up. Maybe the switch?

As always, thanks everybody. :thumbsup: :cheers:

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Re: My Dnepr MT-11 Story

Post by dneprlover » Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:36 am

I had a vague idea the valves were not quite correct and that's why I asked you to check in an earlier post. they now sound as if they are set pretty close to correct. Sorry about getting the TDC marking wrong but glad your flywheel is clearly marked. Makes life so much easier.
Starting procedure from cold
fuel on
chokes on
tiny bit of throttle opening
ignition off.
kick twice
Ignition on
Kick again.
It should always start from cold with this procedure.

Russian method of ignition timing is to use a lamp from points to earth and set to lamp going out. Never heard of tissue paper being recommended by them? If you do manage to get hold of a decent timing light. set more accurately to 35 degrees.

Sidecar lamp. you either have a bad connection on the wiring or different wattage bulbs in the holders. Check they are the same and look at the multiplug connector supplying the sidecar. also clean the contacts at the bulbs. only move to the switch if no result although a spray of switch cleaner wouldn't go amiss

Oil ... Rear drive 100cc of SAE 90 gear oil ( I always pyt a peanut sized lump of molyslip in as well
Gearbox 1500cc of SAE 80 ( You can use 20-50 engine oil without problems)
Engine 2200 cc of 20-50 engine oil ( something with a bit of zinc in it suitable for historic flat tappet engines)
Forks 130cc each leg of SAE 10 ( change spec to suit your riding style) really, any oil with an anti frothing agent will do.
Sorry but you will have to do the USA conversions yourself.
Do not trust the dipsticks. test with them resting in hole, not screwed in. And be aware that if the gearbox oil level rises when checked, it will be due to water entering down the speedo cable connection in heavy rain.

Charging Voltage appears OK. Claus very recently posted a cure for the charging light glowing , maybe he can point it out to you to save my brain a bit longer

When you start riding it, be aware that the semi automatic clutch mechanism takes a bit of getting used to, especially if you have a habit of riding with your foot on the gear pedal. I just used the front part of the stick, finding the heel part too difficult to use.

I'm thinking of leaving the Forum shortly due to my health and the changes that appear to have taken place behind the scenes recently so get your questions in quick as I may no longer be here.
Neval BMW/MT11 800cc hybrid, Neval 2wd MT10-36, Neval standard MT10-36, Neval MT16, another MT11, BMW/MB650 hybrid , K750m and an MB750 with locking diff.

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Re: My Dnepr MT-11 Story

Post by Orangecicle » Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:33 am

dneprlover wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:36 am
I'm thinking of leaving the Forum shortly due to my health and the changes that appear to have taken place behind the scenes recently so get your questions in quick as I may no longer be here.
Sorry to hear about your health. Thank you for all of the kind advice. It has been invaluable. :)

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Re: My Dnepr MT-11 Story

Post by dneprlover » Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:08 am

Trying to help has actually been a pleasure to me. to find a new poster that knows what they are doing and is willing to take advice makes a refreshing change to some of the morons who are new to the bikes but think they are the worlds best mechanics. I know my style is sometimes thought of as patronising but I've always believed in the KISS principle.

I'll still be here until at least the weekend so if you want to know anything else, ask away.
Neval BMW/MT11 800cc hybrid, Neval 2wd MT10-36, Neval standard MT10-36, Neval MT16, another MT11, BMW/MB650 hybrid , K750m and an MB750 with locking diff.

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Re: My Dnepr MT-11 Story

Post by Claus » Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:58 am

dneprlover wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:36 am

Charging Voltage appears OK. Claus very recently posted a cure for the charging light glowing , maybe he can point it out to you to save my brain a bit longer
I think this is what you mentioned:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=54533&hilit=reulator%2C+rectifier

I´m sorry to read you`re not doing well!
owned bikes: 93 Ural rig domestic model, 95 Suzuki DR 659 RSE, BMW R100GS, Suzuki GSX1100G rig, BMW R100R rig with Ural sidecar, Ural rig with BMW drivetrain under construction,

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Re: My Dnepr MT-11 Story

Post by Orangecicle » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:26 am

As to the charging idiot light . . . I suppose I could disconnect it and install just a simple volt meter from keyed power.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dual-USB-Phone ... SwKKZd17A2

https://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-Digital-LE ... 7Cg9DbF4kQ

When I installed the Mosfet rectifier on my KTM (https://roadstercycle.com/index.htm), I also installed their LED charging indicator, which I really like: https://roadstercycle.com/Motorcycle%20 ... onitor.htm It just glows green when all is good and blinks red when things go south.

Over the winter I want to change a couple of things on the bike. I'm not fond of the dash. It would look much better if it had a tach where the key goes, but that raises lots of issues, like finding a tach signal. I could also ditch everything and install a simple digital unit like a TrailTech Endurance:

Image

A digital dash doesn't fit the "theme" of the bike, but it would simplify the dash and give me room to put my phone. I make my own carbon fiber parts, so designing a new dash layout is no issue.

I don't like the key where it is, and I was thinking of relocating it on the sidecar side of the frame -- like old-school bikes. Has anyone done this??? I see that Dennis (Road Home) did it with a switch from a Yamaha Dragster. {See video below at 3:45}:



Again, that cleans up the dash. The only other issue would be replacing the current set of idiot lights, which I think could be better handled with a few very small LEDs, like these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/12v-Led-indica ... SwoeVdv2kM
Last edited by Orangecicle on Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: My Dnepr MT-11 Story

Post by Orangecicle » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:29 am

Oh, and I don't like the stock tank. I'd really like to find a decent teardrop tank, like the M-72 styled tank that Dennis used in the video above. I think that really fits the old-school look of the bike much better than the standard Dnepr tank. So if anyone has a good source for a decent M-72 tank . . . .

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Re: My Dnepr MT-11 Story

Post by dneprlover » Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:20 am

Not a big fan of altering the instrument console too much and hate side mounted keys. I always have top mounted ones which really make the kill switch redundant so I repurpose them through a relay to run auxiliaries or spotlights.Veglia rev counter from a 1970s-1980s Moto guzzi twin fits nice if the key switch is moved to the space between the instruments. Power for counting is simply a feed from the coil -ve wire.
The tank in the video is a Chinese CJ one. K750 tanks look good and they have the toolbox but M72 ones don't. any will fit but you might have to play to get a Chinese one to fit. The Soviet tanks will go straight on but most of the ones available now seem to have split seams or be full of pin holes.

I like to keep the bikes as original as possible with sensible mods. I have changed the idiot lights on a couple of mine to LED similar to the ones you link to. saves space inside the console and looks good. Likewise the fuel tanks, older ones look much better on bikes with saddles.

read the post by Claus about the charging light.
Neval BMW/MT11 800cc hybrid, Neval 2wd MT10-36, Neval standard MT10-36, Neval MT16, another MT11, BMW/MB650 hybrid , K750m and an MB750 with locking diff.

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