Air/ oil separator

Are ya having a problem with your rig? We'll try to help. Share your tech tips and experiences here. Dr. Billy Glaser, author of the "Unofficial 750 Ural Service Manual" site myural.com, is moderating this section.
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windmill
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Re: Air/ oil separator

Post by windmill » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:55 am

jaybird wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:36 am
At this point, I'm running draft tubes on my rigs and I'm perfectly happy with that arrangement,
It's probably painfully obvious, but what do you mean by "draft tubes"?

I'm picturing a simple tube pointing down like on a diesel engine in a older truck such as my Freightliner had?
Barry

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Re: Air/ oil separator

Post by jaybird » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:15 pm

windmill wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:55 am
jaybird wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:36 am
At this point, I'm running draft tubes on my rigs and I'm perfectly happy with that arrangement,
It's probably painfully obvious, but what do you mean by "draft tubes"?

I'm picturing a simple tube pointing down like on a diesel engine in a older truck such as my Freightliner had?
Yes, it terminates under the motorcycle, in the area of the center stand. It's a single tube, I used the plural "tubes" because I have one on my Gear Up and My Retro.
Some people don't like them because they can be a bit "messy", but I'm not a shiner so that's not as important to me.

Happy trails,
Jaybird
2005 Gear-Up, Mr. Nat_ural 108,000+ Kilometers and counting
2013 Retro, Black beauty, AKA Lucky "13"
1995 Olive Tourist
1975 Enfield Diesel Bullet
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1974 BMW R 75/6
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Re: Air/ oil separator

Post by hotflash44 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:23 pm

do you remember the draft tubes were always cut at a 45deg angle on the bottom? guess it provider suction as the air passed by. in the old days my dad would always look under a used car to see if any smoke was coming out,if so he considered the engine warn out. Ah, the good old days :wink:
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Re: Air/ oil separator

Post by BlueRockCrawler » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:16 pm

Jay, from the video
Van "Sergey can you use this on this?" points at new breather and old engine case
Sergey "Yes but you need shaft shorter"
Here, listen very carefully through both those genius' thick accents
https://youtu.be/wk4Zm-brAhE?t=37
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previous Honda's were
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Re: Air/ oil separator

Post by ReCycled » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:57 pm

On the flat head IMZ/KMZ motors, it is just a rigid tube pointed straight down from the front cover.
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Re: Air/ oil separator

Post by jaybird » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:08 pm

BlueRockCrawler wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:16 pm
Jay, from the video
Van "Sergey can you use this on this?" points at new breather and old engine case
Sergey "Yes but you need shaft shorter"
Here, listen very carefully through both those genius' thick accents
https://youtu.be/wk4Zm-brAhE?t=37
Thanks, I saw that, hence my comment about drilling out the center of the new breather valve to accommodate the earlier cam.
There may be some other reason why that won't work, but without having one in front of you to compare it's all just speculative.
The gain may not be worth the effort and expense, I certainly wouldn't pull apart a running engine just to install this new and improved breather.

Happy trails,
Jaybird
2005 Gear-Up, Mr. Nat_ural 108,000+ Kilometers and counting
2013 Retro, Black beauty, AKA Lucky "13"
1995 Olive Tourist
1975 Enfield Diesel Bullet
2008 Enfield Bullet 500
1974 BMW R 75/6
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Re: Air/ oil separator

Post by jaybird » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:09 pm

ReCycled wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:57 pm
On the flat head IMZ/KMZ motors, it is just a rigid tube pointed straight down from the front cover.
Yes, a draft tube.

Happy trails,
Jaybird
2005 Gear-Up, Mr. Nat_ural 108,000+ Kilometers and counting
2013 Retro, Black beauty, AKA Lucky "13"
1995 Olive Tourist
1975 Enfield Diesel Bullet
2008 Enfield Bullet 500
1974 BMW R 75/6
Etc.

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Re: Air/ oil separator

Post by windmill » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:11 pm

jaybird wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:15 pm
Some people don't like them because they can be a bit "messy", but I'm not a shiner so that's not as important to me.
As a daily rider in the Northwest I'm not a shiner either, but I did find it too messy, even when spraying it with WD-40 in the winter . Perhaps its the difference in climate, but it made a real mess of my back wheel.
Barry

"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills".

2007 Patrol 100k km and counting,
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Re: Air/ oil separator

Post by BlueRockCrawler » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:48 pm

jaybird wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:08 pm
Thanks, I saw that, hence my comment about drilling out the center of the new breather valve to accommodate the earlier cam.
There may be some other reason why that won't work, but without having one in front of you to compare it's all just speculative.
The gain may not be worth the effort and expense, I certainly wouldn't pull apart a running engine just to install this new and improved breather.

Happy trails,
Jaybird
Ah, I see.
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previous Honda's were
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Re: Air/ oil separator

Post by jaybird » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:16 pm

windmill wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:11 pm
jaybird wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:15 pm
Some people don't like them because they can be a bit "messy", but I'm not a shiner so that's not as important to me.
As a daily rider in the Northwest I'm not a shiner either, but I did find it too messy, even when spraying it with WD-40 in the winter . Perhaps its the difference in climate, but it made a real mess of my back wheel.
I went out and looked, my draft tube drops down on the front side of the shifter shaft, between the transmission case and the shifter, it hangs about 3" below the frame, it's not making much of a mess there, and I've never had trouble with it fouling the wheel. My engine is burning a lot of oil at this point, to the tune of a quart to a tank, so if it were going to make a mess it would have by now, perhaps you needed to hang the end of your draft tube a bit more forward and a little lower.
You may not be a shiner, but I've seen photos of you rig, it's a nice rig and definitely a shiner compared to my dirty rust ball :lol:

Happy trails,
Jaybird
2005 Gear-Up, Mr. Nat_ural 108,000+ Kilometers and counting
2013 Retro, Black beauty, AKA Lucky "13"
1995 Olive Tourist
1975 Enfield Diesel Bullet
2008 Enfield Bullet 500
1974 BMW R 75/6
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Re: Air/ oil separator

Post by INSUBORDINATOR » Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:55 pm

I use the POSITIVE crankcase vent system I first learned from my TRIUMPHs & BSAs. It predates DOT requirements, & does a perfect job. It also prolongs Air Filter Life. I turned the elbow on my 02 tourists Crankcase Breather to the UP position, by-passing my air box, & routed a continuous piece of vinyl hose along my frames spine - under the gas tank, & out the rear - ending at my rear fender. I have used this technique on ALL my motorcycles over the past 40 years, with excellent results. I have not observed ANY oil escaping - or visible water vapor. Obviously it works for me.
I do live in a rural area, where no inspection is required. Deliberately.
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Re: Air/ oil separator

Post by Tomcatfixer » Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:12 pm

I use the POSITIVE crankcase vent system I first learned from my TRIUMPHs & BSAs.
I don't know why you capitalized 'positive', but I like your technique and will implement it onto my rigs. :thumbsup:
- Chad

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Re: Air/ oil separator

Post by jaybird » Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:36 pm

INSUBORDINATOR wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:55 pm
I use the POSITIVE crankcase vent system I first learned from my TRIUMPHs & BSAs. It predates DOT requirements, & does a perfect job. It also prolongs Air Filter Life. I turned the elbow on my 02 tourists Crankcase Breather to the UP position, by-passing my air box, & routed a continuous piece of vinyl hose along my frames spine - under the gas tank, & out the rear - ending at my rear fender. I have used this technique on ALL my motorcycles over the past 40 years, with excellent results. I have not observed ANY oil escaping - or visible water vapor. Obviously it works for me.
I do live in a rural area, where no inspection is required. Deliberately.
I've seen your system before, very clean install, I've considered using it myself. I'd say the primary reason you're not getting any splooge dripping out the end of that tube is the upward path taken initially and the length of the tube.
The problem I have with that approach is that all that splooge is running back into the crankcase, might not be a problem if you do a lot of extended running, but if you only do short runs it could cause a buildup of condensation in the crankcase.
For me, another issue would be that the tube is running through some valuable and crowded real estate, and might make repairs and maintenance more complicated, but, hey, there are drawbacks to the way I have mine routed too.

Happy trails,
Jaybird
2005 Gear-Up, Mr. Nat_ural 108,000+ Kilometers and counting
2013 Retro, Black beauty, AKA Lucky "13"
1995 Olive Tourist
1975 Enfield Diesel Bullet
2008 Enfield Bullet 500
1974 BMW R 75/6
Etc.

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Re: Air/ oil separator

Post by tparr » Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:39 pm

doesn't a pcv valve require a vacuum to open? so if you install a pcv valve and not route it to a vaccuum source its just plugging the breather hole.--- I guess i am having difficulty understanding what "problem" is in need of a fix. my rig is a carbed 2013, so my observations are from this point of view. my vent runs from the crankcase to the airbox. this water vapor and oil mixture is then reintroduced to the cylinders to be consumed. it does not foul up the air filter because the vapors are deposited on the "filtered side" of the intake(they dont pass through the filter). These vapors coming from the case are not harmful to the engine,(every vehicle i drive redirects these gasses back to be burned) why not stick with the stock setup? P.S. im not green, dont care if you dump this directly overboard but seems unnecessary. thats my novice 2 cents worth. happy motoring. Tim


edit
I am wrong about how a pcv valve works. springs hold valve open, vacuum acts to reduce flow. so disregard the first two sentences.

edit 2. i must be bored today since i am sticking my nose in other people business. my apologies
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Re: Air/ oil separator

Post by jaybird » Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:28 pm

tparr wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:39 pm
doesn't a pcv valve require a vacuum to open? so if you install a pcv valve and not route it to a vaccuum source its just plugging the breather hole.--- I guess i am having difficulty understanding what "problem" is in need of a fix. my rig is a carbed 2013, so my observations are from this point of view. my vent runs from the crankcase to the airbox. this water vapor and oil mixture is then reintroduced to the cylinders to be consumed. it does not foul up the air filter because the vapors are deposited on the "filtered side" of the intake(they dont pass through the filter). These vapors coming from the case are not harmful to the engine,(every vehicle i drive redirects these gasses back to be burned) why not stick with the stock setup? P.S. im not green, dont care if you dump this directly overboard but seems unnecessary. thats my novice 2 cents worth. happy motoring. Tim


edit
I am wrong about how a pcv valve works. springs hold valve open, vacuum acts to reduce flow. so disregard the first two sentences.
INSUBORDANATOR Is not really describing his system properly, and I don't believe he has a PCV valve installed. It would be more accurate to say it's a crankcase draft tube, the same as a lot of us use, just routed in a different way.
The mist from the crankcase vent certainly will foul the air filter and shorten the service interval. I don't know what airbox your '13 Gear Up has, but some of the earlier airboxes are a bugger to service, plus the extra expense if you're using paper filters, primary reasons people have done this.

Happy trails,
Jaybird
2005 Gear-Up, Mr. Nat_ural 108,000+ Kilometers and counting
2013 Retro, Black beauty, AKA Lucky "13"
1995 Olive Tourist
1975 Enfield Diesel Bullet
2008 Enfield Bullet 500
1974 BMW R 75/6
Etc.

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