'99 650 Timing gear replacement

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xpatriot
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Re: '99 650 Timing gear replacement

Post by xpatriot » Wed May 16, 2018 9:53 pm

I'll try snakeoil, I don't have anything to check for straight, but might give jay bird a visit and I think he can. Thanks for the info, I wouldn't be very surprised if something happened during manufacturing as I was told the bike ran up till the timing gears blew out and cracked the case....to me that makes it less likely it was bent due to being hydrolocked.
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1999 650 Tourist "The Moscow Mule"

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Claus
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Re: '99 650 Timing gear replacement

Post by Claus » Thu May 17, 2018 5:09 am

Sorry guys that I used the wrong term for taper. The German word for taper is Konus. I sometimes should use a translator program to check what I´m writing...
Rob, I reckon, your suggestion about bending the crank putting the engine together is very likeley. I heat up the housing prior to installing the crank and mount all parts with the right temperature difference so I don´t need a single hammer blow. The only thing I do is to tap the crank twice from the front and the back after installing the flywheel with a recoilless plastic mallet (is that the right term for a mallet filled with sand or lead balls?) to sofly seat it and take any stress off the crank. After those soft blows is can be revolved with nearly no resistance. And I always use bearings with C3 bearing clearance to cope with very light bending of the crank (0,03mm respectively 0.0011 ")

xpatriot, you were lucky your parts went off so easy.That´s great!
owned bikes: 93 Ural hack domestic model, 01 Ural 750 hack
92 BMW R100GS, 92 Suzuki GSX1100G hack, 95 BMW R100R hack with Ural sidecar

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Re: '99 650 Timing gear replacement

Post by xpatriot » Thu May 17, 2018 8:46 am

Claus, thanks for all the information and your English is very good! I know exactly what you mean when describing the hammer.

Thanks to other who helped with advice and pointers. I’ll let everyone know how the rebuild goes.
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Re: '99 650 Timing gear replacement

Post by Tomcatfixer » Sun May 20, 2018 1:23 pm

is that the right term for a mallet filled with sand or lead balls?
I've always referred to them as 'dead-blow' hammers.

I'd like to take this opportunity to compliment you, Claus, on your posts. They are always insightful and well-written, with a warm and friendly tone. They truly enhance this forum and are a delight for me to read.
- Chad

Virginia Beach, Virginia, USA

Current rides:
2015 Ural cT "Mobile Chernobyl", 1999 Ural Tourist "Desert DisGrace: the Iron (Oxide) Curtain", 1994 Honda VFR750F, 1986 Yamaha FZX700S Fazer

Previous rides:
2007 Honda VTR1000 FireStorm (Super Hawk in U.S.)
2001 Buell Blast! - - - - - - - 2005 Yamaha FJR1300
1993 Honda CBR600F2 - -1984 Yamaha FJ1100
1986 Yamaha FZX700S (a different one than above)

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Re: '99 650 Timing gear replacement

Post by Snakeoil » Mon May 21, 2018 8:20 pm

Tomcatfixer wrote:
is that the right term for a mallet filled with sand or lead balls?
I've always referred to them as 'dead-blow' hammers.

I'd like to take this opportunity to compliment you, Claus, on your posts. They are always insightful and well-written, with a warm and friendly tone. They truly enhance this forum and are a delight for me to read.
Yes, I have to echo Chads sentiments. Please don't take my comments as being critical. I spent much of my career working overseas and because of that, I'm pretty good at figuring out what is trying to be said. It is actually very surprising how similar many languages are. The romance languages, German and Arabic have many words in common. Not so much from an exact spelling or pronunciation POV, but if you look at the word, you can see that it is very similar to an English word. I was pretty sure that Conus meant cone.

Yes, dead blow is the common term for a sand or shot filled hammer. Dead blow implies it does not bounce when it strikes, Claus. Commonly used to seat parts in a milling vice before machining. Before we had dead blow mallets, we used rawhide mallets or even lead mallets.

Xpat, if you have v-blocks, you can put the crank in them to get an idea of how it is bent. You can even make a pair out of wood for a basic check. But it is just that, a rough check.
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Rob
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Re: '99 650 Timing gear replacement

Post by Claus » Tue May 22, 2018 4:23 am

Thanks for your warm compliments, guys. After all these years writing in foreign language forums I´m still feeling a bit unsecure although I can express myself quite well in English language. But that´s only one side of the coin. The other side is the cultural and political difference, where I always have to think before writing. Some things could be taken as rude while they are read as normal in my language. Some questions are not to be asked where it´s normal here and vice versa. So it´s very interesting for me to keep contact to foreign individuals and keep my vocabulary up to date, always trying not to burn my fingers by writing wrong terms or offending someone. I really do appreciate being corrected when I use wrong terms, that´s how I can improve my language. This forum is a great community and even though I stopped repairing russian bikes in my shop some years ago, my partner Martina and I do still own and ride three Ural hacks and will keep them on the road. And I really do appreciate the comradeship here.
owned bikes: 93 Ural hack domestic model, 01 Ural 750 hack
92 BMW R100GS, 92 Suzuki GSX1100G hack, 95 BMW R100R hack with Ural sidecar

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Re: '99 650 Timing gear replacement

Post by Snakeoil » Tue May 22, 2018 12:56 pm

HEY!! WHO YOU CALLIN' FOREIGN??!!! :wink:
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Rob
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Re: '99 650 Timing gear replacement

Post by xpatriot » Tue May 22, 2018 1:44 pm

Snakeoil wrote:Xpat, if you have v-blocks, you can put the crank in them to get an idea of how it is bent. You can even make a pair out of wood for a basic check. But it is just that, a rough check.
I'll give it a try. Straight or not, there is the remnants of what looks like a large ring that might have held one of the slingers in place (see pics above). I doubt there's any point in re-using this crank with that sliding around in it.

New crank and assorted other seals, bearings, etc. OTW from Russia. I've been busying myself flushing the gearbox that was full of milky oil with kerosene, changing the final drive fluids and picked up 2 gallons of muratic acid yesterday to start on the tank. Happy days!
1999 650 Tourist "The Moscow Mule"

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Re: '99 650 Timing gear replacement

Post by Claus » Tue May 22, 2018 3:22 pm

If your final drive has got no air vent, you might want to fill in only 3 ounces of oil (90 mililiters) to prevent the oil from flowing into the brake drum.
If it has got an air vent, you can go for what the manual sais.(this is only valid for one wheel drive). And it´s a good idea, to check if the overflow hole is clogged (take off the aluminium ring around the final drive spline without touching the sealing ring and blow out the obstruction with compressed air from this side or with a brake cleaner can.) If this hole is clean, excess oil can escape and will not foul your brake.

Milky oil in the gearbox is a result of water running down the speedo cable. I have a cable tie around the cable at air filter height so most of the water can drip off there. Plus an o-ring around the hole where the cable enters the gearbox (under the rubber cap) that is covered with stiff grease. And a cable tie around the neck of the rubber cap.That helps a lot.
owned bikes: 93 Ural hack domestic model, 01 Ural 750 hack
92 BMW R100GS, 92 Suzuki GSX1100G hack, 95 BMW R100R hack with Ural sidecar

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Re: '99 650 Timing gear replacement

Post by xpatriot » Wed May 23, 2018 10:00 am

Read up on muratic acid and it's nasty stuff. Taking it back to home depot. Full body protection, fumes, unable to get rid of it. Will be messing around with vinegar and/or toilet bowl cleaner. Wish me luck.
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Re: '99 650 Timing gear replacement

Post by Tomcatfixer » Wed May 23, 2018 10:40 am

I used muriatic acid in an attempt to strip the chrome from some of my 1999 project Ural parts.
2018-05-23 10.35.23.jpg
It was completely ineffective at removing the chrome, but it thoroughly removed all of the rust.
2018-05-23 10.35.37.jpg
It was simple to neutralize with baking soda.
2018-05-23 10.35.56.jpg
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- Chad

Virginia Beach, Virginia, USA

Current rides:
2015 Ural cT "Mobile Chernobyl", 1999 Ural Tourist "Desert DisGrace: the Iron (Oxide) Curtain", 1994 Honda VFR750F, 1986 Yamaha FZX700S Fazer

Previous rides:
2007 Honda VTR1000 FireStorm (Super Hawk in U.S.)
2001 Buell Blast! - - - - - - - 2005 Yamaha FJR1300
1993 Honda CBR600F2 - -1984 Yamaha FJ1100
1986 Yamaha FZX700S (a different one than above)

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Re: '99 650 Timing gear replacement

Post by rivers » Wed May 23, 2018 12:15 pm

xpatriot wrote:Read up on muratic acid and it's nasty stuff. Taking it back to home depot. Full body protection, fumes, unable to get rid of it. Will be messing around with vinegar and/or toilet bowl cleaner. Wish me luck.
Expat, yeah it is an ACID so you do gotta use your head but it's a relatively tame acid. As in it's not like sulfuric or hydrochloric acid and dilutes/washes off easily with lotsa water. Do don't want it in your eye, mouth, lungs but you sure don't need "full body protection". Sheesh that's lawyer speak for "if you're an idiot doan mess with this stuff." If you already have it use it.
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Re: '99 650 Timing gear replacement

Post by xpatriot » Wed May 23, 2018 2:10 pm

rivers wrote:
xpatriot wrote:Read up on muratic acid and it's nasty stuff. Taking it back to home depot. Full body protection, fumes, unable to get rid of it. Will be messing around with vinegar and/or toilet bowl cleaner. Wish me luck.
Expat, yeah it is an ACID so you do gotta use your head but it's a relatively tame acid. As in it's not like sulfuric or hydrochloric acid and dilutes/washes off easily with lotsa water. Do don't want it in your eye, mouth, lungs but you sure don't need "full body protection". Sheesh that's lawyer speak for "if you're an idiot doan mess with this stuff." If you already have it use it.
Actually Muratic Acid is Hydrochloric Acid.

From the web...

Muriatic acid, a less-pure variant of hydrochloric acid, is available in high concentrations for use in a host of home restoration and maintenance projects.

While this powerful chemical agent runs cheap—about $10 a gallon at home centers and hardware stores (and even on Amazon)—it’s still very caustic stuff, capable of corroding everything from some plastics and metals to clothing and skin. In fact, working with it poses numerous health risks: Momentary skin exposure can cause severe burns, inhaling its fumes can burn lung and nose lining, and contact can also cause irreversible eye damage or blindness.


I think the idiot reference might be over doing it (I'm not suggesting you're calling me that) as I think you'd have to be very, very careful (and far from an idiot) and still get hurt by the stuff. What I'm concerned about is I can't simply soak some parts in it, but I have to fill a tank with various holes in it...petcock, vent, gas cap and 'swill' the stuff around. I can attempt to plug the holes but with what when I'm dealing with something that will basically eat anything other than metal. If I don't want it sloshing around, I can fill it w 2 gallons of the stuff and then figure out where to dump it. I get I can neutralize it, but there comes a point where saving $100 for a rusty tank just isn't worth it.
1999 650 Tourist "The Moscow Mule"

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Re: '99 650 Timing gear replacement

Post by rivers » Wed May 23, 2018 6:11 pm

xpatriot wrote: Actually Muratic Acid is Hydrochloric Acid.
A seriously diluted version. Like about 10%? Do keep it out your eyes, lungs, kids etc but you don't need a rubber apron. I've had it on my fingers/hands and on my body(hip) and no burns irritations etc. Respect it but don't fear it.
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Re: '99 650 Timing gear replacement

Post by xpatriot » Wed May 23, 2018 11:06 pm

rivers wrote:
xpatriot wrote: Actually Muratic Acid is Hydrochloric Acid.
A seriously diluted version. Like about 10%? Do keep it out your eyes, lungs, kids etc but you don't need a rubber apron. I've had it on my fingers/hands and on my body(hip) and no burns irritations etc. Respect it but don't fear it.
I won’t rush to prove you right!
1999 650 Tourist "The Moscow Mule"

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