Final Drive Surgery with Pics

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BinDerSmokDat
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Final Drive Surgery with Pics

Post by BinDerSmokDat » Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:24 pm

Case History

I was climbing a steep rocky section of the Bloody Skillet Trail during the Mid PA Ural ride.
I was in 2WD and during the climb I lost forward momentum.
The rig rolled back and with front and rear brakes at full lock it just kept sliding.
I tried to cut the wheel hard to the right and feathered the front brake to get the rig to roll toward the face of the climb, rather than off the hillside.
Because I was in 2WD the rear wheels just wanted to roll in the direction they were pointed, which was off the hill.
I had a sickening feeling in my stomach as I expected to drop off the hill. :blink:
I got the rig stopped just two feet away from a 30ft drop. :shock:
I had to jump off and keep the front brakes locked to keep it from rolling back.
I just stood there, catching my breath and recovering from the shock.

There was no good place to stop so I waved NavyChief past.
He made it up OK.
Next was IvanGrozney. I waved him past but he encountered the same problem I did.
But because he was in 1WD, he was able to cut the wheel and roll back towards the hill face.
Unfortunately this sent the hack wheel up a berm and put him on his side.
I watched it happen in slow motion, unable to help because I was holding on to my bike.
Fortunately he didn't go all the way over, just on the side and he was able to right it and ride down.

Mike came along next and we got both bikes back on the trail when ReCycled came down the hill (on foot) to say the trail was even steeper ahead and he couldn't get up and that NavyChief had overheated his clutch.
We turned all the rigs around and started to come back down the way we came.

Diagnosis
Immediately I started to hear a loud bang once per rotation of the rear wheel.
At first I thought a rock or large stick had gotten stuck in the wheel.
We got to a wide spot and pulled over.
We got the bike up on the center stand and the rear tire would rotate 355 degrees and then stop with a loud clang.
Then it would rotate another 355 degrees in the opposite direction and stop with a loud clang.
All indications were a FD failure, possibly the ring gear, but since it was up on the center stand we pulled the rear wheel just to be sure it wasn't something simple like a brake shoe binding.
Yeah I know brake shoes don't bind like that, but it was worth a shot.
The brakes and drum were fine.
We drained the FD oil and there was 1/16th" chunks of metal. Not good.
(Note: oil was drained and collected into a sealed container and not left trail side to contaminate the area.)
The patient was trailered home.

Image

Exploratory Surgery
I w@$#ed off most of the dirt and grime today.
I then dropped the case.
There were no leaks or cracks visible on the outside of the case.
Both before and after the accident the case was not leaking from any seals or seams, save for a faint pinion weep that it's had for about a year.
I prepared a nice clean spot on the work bench, put down some cardboard and grabbed a bottle of brain lubricant.
As it was the unofficial last day of summer, I grabbed my last bottle of Victory Summer Love.
The rich hoppy taste went well with the aroma of gear lube.
The 2wd yoke has been removed and note the pill box for small parts on the left.

Image

An examination of the bearing at the 2WD yoke shows the bearing seal is going bad.
It was not leaking, it was spinning freely and not part of the problem, just an observation.
I'll replace it while I have the FD out.

Image

A gentle tap of the case at the seam with a rubber deadblow hammer produced results and as I split the case I forgot about these...they fell out in all directions but I think I got them all...or did I?

Image

So the first peak inside the housing shows more needle bearings and a few other things.
Note the slight gouge at the relief cut of the web that supports the stud on the right.
And what's that thing stuck to the magnetic drain plug?
I'll give you a hint...look at the wear on the pinion bearings...

Image

So here are the needle bearings, all 45 of them and a closer look at that piece stuck to the magnetic drain plug, plus a bigger piece I found in the case.
Know what they are yet? I bet you have a pretty good idea...
Image

Here's where those pieces came from...

Image

See, I put them back where they belong. Just JB Weld them in and I'm all set right fellas? Fellas?? :|

Image

Everything else looked OK, the drive hub is showing some wear but the teeth still have flat tops.
Yeah it's a little rusty. I lube it, but it gets dunked, a lot.

Image

So far I need a ring and pinion, obviously.

If everything else is OK, and there is no other breakage...

What is the bare minimum I need to replace to get rolling again?
What is likely to need replacing in the next 10K that I should replace while I'm in here?

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ReCycled
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Re: Final Drive Surgery with Pics

Post by ReCycled » Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:07 pm

What year did they start using the improved bolts? Might be time for an upgrade...
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Re: Final Drive Surgery with Pics

Post by Albuquralque » Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:27 pm

If everything else is ok, i'd just replace the ring and pinion gears. You might need some shims for both and new case gaskets.

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BinDerSmokDat
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Re: Final Drive Surgery with Pics

Post by BinDerSmokDat » Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:46 am

ReCycled wrote:What year did they start using the improved bolts? Might be time for an upgrade...
I have a mid-2010, which I think means I have the new bolts.
Can anyone confirm that?
Coluralado wrote:If everything else is ok, i'd just replace the ring and pinion gears. You might need some shims for both and new case gaskets.
I saw on Bill G.'s page that case gaskets are used like shims.
From what I could tell I only have a single case gasket.

When I replace gears, if I change nothing else can I use existing shims or will I need to re-shim?
I'm not trying to cheap out, I'll spend the money; I'm just trying to touch as little as possible so I can bolt it back up and get it running in time for JDH.
I don't know my way around the FD, so I'm trying to keep it simple.
Can anyone suggest a complete parts list if it's just the ring and pinion?

I'm going to tear it down further tonight, as I will need to anyway to replace the gears.
I'll check for any other issues.

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Re: Final Drive Surgery with Pics

Post by berger » Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:15 am

BinDerSmokDat wrote: I have a mid-2010, which I think means I have the new bolts.
Can anyone confirm that?
You don't got'em. So you should replace them...remove lock washers, and use red locktite. You will need M8x20x1.25, 10.9 or higher, hex head.

http://www.crawfordsales.info/changesAndUpgrades/
BinDerSmokDat wrote: I saw on Bill G.'s page that case gaskets are used like shims.
From what I could tell I only have a single case gasket.
Buy a few because you are dealing with a different set of gears. You will need to check the lash too, hence getting multiple gaskets.


Read this:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/UralManuals/UralCatalog.xls
FD_parts.png
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BinDerSmokDat
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Re: Final Drive Surgery with Pics

Post by BinDerSmokDat » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:07 am

Thanks guys.
I'll finish tearing it down tonight or tomorrow.
I'll order the bolts from Fastenal.
I'll call around for the rest of the parts this week.

Other than the aforementioned ring gear and 2WD output bearing, is there anything else you see in these pics that I should be concerned with?
It was not leaking before this incident and I saw nothing inside so far to suggest abnormal wear or an on-going issue.
The breakage seems to be abuse related, isolated to this event rather than wear or an ongoing issue. Would you agree?

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Re: Final Drive Surgery with Pics

Post by Navy Chief » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:42 am

I don't see any unusual wear patterns on the gears, and from being there I would say this was an overuse/abuse breakage...
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Re: Final Drive Surgery with Pics

Post by Albuquralque » Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:29 pm

BDSD.....you will have to check the pinon gear to ring gear placement. There are shims that go on the pinon gear shaft to adjust that.

Then you will have to check the pinion to ring gear lash. There are steel shims that fit over the dive hub for coarse adjustment and the paper gaskets act as a fine adjustment.
"Put a little gravel in your travel"

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Previous Urals Owned: 2004 Wolf, 2006 Tourist, 2006 Patrol (TOW), 2006 Patrol (TOM)

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S 854
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Re: Final Drive Surgery with Pics

Post by S 854 » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:00 pm

BinDerSmokDat wrote:A gentle tap of the case at the seam with a rubber deadblow hammer produced results and as I split the case I forgot about these...they fell out in all directions but I think I got them all...or did I?

Image
You forgot Tip #2... :wink:
http://sovietsteeds.com/forums/viewtopi ... =5&t=24022

...now he tells me... :wink:
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Re: Final Drive Surgery with Pics

Post by Niteblues » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:01 pm

:lurker:
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Re: Final Drive Surgery with Pics

Post by Albuquralque » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:52 pm

niteblues59 wrote: :lurker:
+1
"Put a little gravel in your travel"

Darrell - Albuquralque
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Previous Urals Owned: 2004 Wolf, 2006 Tourist, 2006 Patrol (TOW), 2006 Patrol (TOM)

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Re: Final Drive Surgery with Pics

Post by BinDerSmokDat » Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:39 am

Just ordered the parts...the below is taken from the excellent parts spread sheet Berger shared above...

05-0010 22 101070504700 IMZ-8.107-05047 Gear set 1
05-0010 19 110370510710 IMZ-8.1037-05107-10 Case cover gasket 1…3 Number of gaskets determines play in the gears of the final drive
05-0010 15 100720522401 72-05224-01 Bearing nut gasket 1 The gasket has round cross section
05-0010 45 900003304101 FAG 3304B.TVH Bearing 3304B.TVH 1

You'll notice above that there are no shims on order.
The wisdom that was shared with me is that tolerances shouldn't change from gear set to gear set.
The variations from FD to FD come from the machining of the casting.
If you reuse the factory shims in the same case, you shouldn't need to adjust anything. We'll see. :whistle:
Parts should be here Monday. Upgraded bolts are ordered and should be here today/tomorrow.

I'm going to get everything shiny this weekend and assemble next week.
I was initially looking at parts cleaners, but I've heard good things about w@$#ing parts with PineSol or Zep Purple de-greaser so I'll give that a try.
Plus I don't want a parts washer taking up permanent floor space in the garage for the infrequent use it will receive.

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Re: Final Drive Surgery with Pics

Post by berger » Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:42 am

BinDerSmokDat wrote: I was initially looking at parts cleaners, but I've heard good things about w@$#ing parts with PineSol or Zep Purple de-greaser so I'll give that a try.
Plus I don't want a parts washer taking up permanent floor space in the garage for the infrequent use it will receive.
Why w@$#....they will just get dirty again. I like to think the caked on mud keeps oil in!!
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Re: Final Drive Surgery with Pics

Post by Mikehusa » Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:49 am

BDSD, Zep Purple cleaner works great but I wouldn't suggest using it on aluminum surfaces. It can discolor aluminum causing it to darken unless you really cut it.
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Re: Final Drive Surgery with Pics

Post by Albuquralque » Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:56 am

:lurker:
"Put a little gravel in your travel"

Darrell - Albuquralque
2014 Patrol - Babe the Blue Ox
EFI Map OR 1.02
Throttle Body Vacuum Ports
K&N Air Filter
Raceway 2-into-1 Header (Right Side)
Previous Urals Owned: 2004 Wolf, 2006 Tourist, 2006 Patrol (TOW), 2006 Patrol (TOM)

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