O2 sensor replacement

Woe unto you that bought the first model year of a major remake, perhaps this section can help address any 2014 and later model Ural "imperfections". Here's a special section for folks with the latest rigs to discuss 2014 and later model-related topics such fuel injection, 3-wheel disc brakes, hydraulic steering dampers, spin-on oil filters and other anomalies that don't belong on true Russsian motorcycle ;-P We've gone from using big hammers and greasy wrenches to needing computers and Ouija boards in order to fix our rigs.
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Please keep this section specific to issues pertaining to 2014 and later models such as fuel injection, sidecar and rear disc brakes and so forth. Ask general or non-2014 and later specific questions in the main Hammerin' & Wrenchin' section.
eastbloc
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Re: O2 sensor replacement

Post by eastbloc » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:35 pm

Update: I received the HD eliminators. They won't work. The plug looks only superficially similar and is not remotely compatible.

Oh well -- looks like it's back to the original plan of using my old O2 sensors as plug donors for the sensor delete mod.
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Re: O2 sensor replacement

Post by Mr Wazzock » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:46 pm

I've lost track, why were you not just buying a replacement Ural one?
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Re: O2 sensor replacement

Post by Mr Wazzock » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:55 pm

PS: I found I've got a saved PDF about the Delphi miniature sensors - but can't remember where it came from on the net, nor find it again :(
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Delphi1.jpg
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Re: O2 sensor replacement

Post by eastbloc » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:44 pm

Mr Wazzock wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:46 pm
I've lost track, why were you not just buying a replacement Ural one?
I did buy replacements, but I like the way it runs without them better so I won't be using them going forward and I just want the MIL light to go away.
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Re: O2 sensor replacement

Post by windmill » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:20 pm

Barry

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Re: O2 sensor replacement

Post by eastbloc » Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:04 pm

Thanks Barry. One thing I'm not sure about is the sensors have two pairs of leads -- one heats the sensor, the other produces the O2 reading.

Which one gets the resistor? Don't both circuits need to be closed in order for the MIL light to stay off?
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Re: O2 sensor replacement

Post by windmill » Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:51 pm

eastbloc wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:04 pm
Thanks Barry. One thing I'm not sure about is the sensors have two pairs of leads -- one heats the sensor, the other produces the O2 reading.

Which one gets the resistor? Don't both circuits need to be closed in order for the MIL light to stay off?
I'm not sure, throwing the concept out there for feedback. Still researching it myself, I tried a resistor between the black and white leads (purple & white on bike side) and it didn't work.
Barry

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Re: O2 sensor replacement

Post by Mr Wazzock » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:40 pm

eastbloc wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:44 pm
Mr Wazzock wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:46 pm
I've lost track, why were you not just buying a replacement Ural one?
I did buy replacements, but I like the way it runs without them better so I won't be using them going forward and I just want the MIL light to go away.
Ah right thanks.

The sensor itself, unless it's different to the type I know about, should have a very high electrical impedance, so I don't think needs replacing with a resistor, but the problem then is if the ECU is expecting it to deliver a Voltage, but there is none, that alone could throw an MIL.

The heater part could be emulated with a resistor of the right value, I would have thought. Then need to worry about the power haanding of the resistor.

On the Moto Guzzi forums, you could get a small plug-in box that modifies the Lambda signal slightly for the EFI models, a few years ago I helped a mate with the design of one. Then later still, the newer models got different ECU's that would still throw the MIL just because the Lambda Voltage was a bit different. :(
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Re: O2 sensor replacement

Post by BlueRockCrawler » Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:04 am

You use power from heater circuit, through resistor of appropriate value and a 555 timer back into ecu to fool it. It's an old trick for the sensor after the catalytic converter on obd compliant vehicle that somehow lost their cat so it doesn't throw an MIL. Don't ask me any details on the components because I haven't needed to do it in over 10 years and I bought one from someone much smarter than me.
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Re: O2 sensor replacement

Post by Speedbump » Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:35 pm

This is what I found on the net. Looks like these "by-pass" tricks are for the secondary, or after the cat, applications. It does show a capacitor in the circuit.
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Re: O2 sensor replacement

Post by Mr Wazzock » Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:51 pm

Yep that's kind of what my mate was doing and I was helping him by doing computer aided circuit design for it and running simulations. He already figured to insert a resistor in, but wasn't sure what value. Even after simulations we still weren't sure, he then got the idea of a variable preset type potentiiometer that user could tweak or 'tune' to his/her preference. But as I'm not overly trusting of preset pots in an automotive environment (read as, outdoors) we opted for an alternative which was a range od switchable resistor values, the switch being a 7-way DIL PCB mounting switch same footprint as common 14-pin IC's. As any of the seven can be on or off, it offered 128 combinations. I did simulations of that so we could see the range of Lambda Voltages that could be got with it, and he went with that. All went swimmingly for a while until as I said earlier the newer Moto Guzzis came out (Audace etc.) whose ECU's threw a wobbly just because the signal Voltage looked too low. can't remember now what he did about that, apart from owner sticking a small piece of black insulation tape over the MIL on the dash. :o
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Re: O2 sensor replacement

Post by BlueRockCrawler » Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:28 pm

I believe the 555 was being used for pwm and it completely eliminated the 2nd O2 sensor. I'm not sure what you'd do for the primary that won't mess with the tuning or throw an MIL, other than a dobeck.
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Re: O2 sensor replacement

Post by eastbloc » Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:34 pm

Messing with the tuning is the point. It runs better in open loop.

I don't want to trick it into running closed loop with a random value. The goal is purely to disable the MIL light. It's not a terribly important goal, I can live with an extra light on the dash or I can unplug the bulb. It would just be nice to tell it not to bother throwing that code.
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Re: O2 sensor replacement

Post by eastbloc » Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:48 am

I do believe I've found the proper Delphi connectors that will mate up to the O2 sensor harness. It appears the style of connector is known as "GT150".

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Delphi-GT150-4 ... :rk:8:pf:0
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Re: O2 sensor replacement

Post by windmill » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:43 am

eastbloc wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:48 am
I do believe I've found the proper Delphi connectors that will mate up to the O2 sensor harness. It appears the style of connector is known as "GT150".

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Delphi-GT150-4 ... :rk:8:pf:0
I agree, it sure does look right.
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