cT Sidecar Shock Removal

Woe unto you that bought the first model year of a major remake, perhaps this section can help address any 2014 and later model Ural "imperfections". Here's a special section for folks with the latest rigs to discuss 2014 and later model-related topics such fuel injection, 3-wheel disc brakes, hydraulic steering dampers, spin-on oil filters and other anomalies that don't belong on true Russsian motorcycle ;-P We've gone from using big hammers and greasy wrenches to needing computers and Ouija boards in order to fix our rigs.
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Please keep this section specific to issues pertaining to 2014 and later models such as fuel injection, sidecar and rear disc brakes and so forth. Ask general or non-2014 and later specific questions in the main Hammerin' & Wrenchin' section.
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windmill
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Re: cT Sidecar Shock Removal

Post by windmill » Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:33 pm

:clap:

I think learning to work on a Ural can be like learning how to ride one, sometimes our prior experiences can get in the way.
More than once I've had to remind myself there's the right way, the wrong way, and the Ural way to do things. :P
Barry

"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills".

2007 Patrol 100k km and counting,
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Re: cT Sidecar Shock Removal

Post by Claus » Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:34 am

RC20 wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:19 pm
Never saw anything like that, they are fixed on anything else I ever worked on.

Ural, learning new things all the time. Ergh.
Well, it IS a Ural and it will remain one. Lots of funny things to discover on it. Old or new model. :mrgreen:

Good you´ve got it now. Well done.
owned bikes: 93 Ural rig domestic model, BMW R100GS, Suzuki GSX1100G rig, BMW R100R rig with Ural sidecar, Ural rig with BMW drivetrain under construction,

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Re: cT Sidecar Shock Removal

Post by Rakthi » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:27 am

Congrats on succeeding in the installation of the HCS shocks! :cheers:

Sounds like a real ordeal on the CTs sidecar side.

Will look forward to hearing about your experience with them on the road.
2020 Ural Ranger

RC20
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Re: cT Sidecar Shock Removal

Post by RC20 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:57 am

Well, it IS a Ural and it will remain one. Lots of funny things to discover on it. Old or new model. :mrgreen:

Good you´ve got it now. Well done.
Ural is true but in this case I can only blame my lame brain, but thank you. I could feel a major difference just going across the driveway and putting it under my Ural Too (Lean too off the side of the house for it to stay under cover). Next week into the 40+ (F) range for us so I may even get to try them out!

I think learning to work on a Ural can be like learning how to ride one, sometimes our prior experiences can get in the way.
More than once I've had to remind myself there's the right way, the wrong way, and the Ural way to do things
More than once I have run into this sort of thing, you know you are wrong but can't figure out why. The why gets in the way of progress.
Some has been different and good, some has just been new, some has been, they were out of their fargin minds, this is stupid.

This one makes sense for the side car setup, I just was not seeing it, on me, probably should have asked my wife (she is the artist who sees all this in 3 dimensions).
Congrats on succeeding in the installation of the HCS shocks! :cheers:

Sounds like a real ordeal on the CTs sidecar side.

Will look forward to hearing about your experience with them on the road.
Thank you, I am embarrassed I did not see it. Sherlock Holmes and rule out the impossible sort of thing........

It looked like the bottom could be done via the access hole in the bracket that holds the axle but with the bending need the angles were all wrong. The appeal is the top goes on the tower tube and you don't have to offset it and align it up. Who cares what direction the bolt at the bottom is pointing, you can put the nut on the other side fine (if you could do it!)

Oddly the top is not forced with the offset like the Ural shock (which is heavier duty) the issue is that last little bit of its a tad long and you need to compress the spring per Claus.

In this case I had a two x 4 trying to get the bottom to work and I just ran it under the front of the swing arm and with my all too much weight I could compress the rubber bumper on the bottom and after a few tries it slipped right over the top. Wallla!

Its snowing now. Not sure I want to do a run with the studs off. AK like Europe is experience a record cold outbreak, up North 350 miles they are seeing -40 (F or see its the same at that crossing point)
Fear No Gravel
Formerly Owned: ( various rides on others)
Honda 90
2 x CB750K (one a true Japan Model flown to Hawaii by a P3 Orion Sub Patrol Aircraft!)
1 x CB700 SC ala Shaft Drive Nighthawk S (RC20 is the actual in house production Model)
1 x R80GS (ok to start with, learned to love it for what it was)
1 x CB450K

Current:
1 x 2019 cT Terracotta

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Kaliram
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Re: cT Sidecar Shock Removal

Post by Kaliram » Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:01 pm

Congratulations on getting Ave h HCS shocks installed!

I’m in the middle of a 4,000 miles trip to California and back via nowhere in particular, and am loving my HVS shocks: a big improvement.
Current ride: 2019 Ural Gear Up, O.D. Green (“Jyoti”)
Blasts in the past: 2016 Ural Gear Up ("Shanti ")
2012 Ural Gear Up ("Tootles")
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Re: cT Sidecar Shock Removal

Post by RC20 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:23 pm

I am envious. I wandered all over California back in the 70s on my 750. The 750 started out as transportation and became my weekend wonder. Hooked me on cycles for life.

My driveway is pretty rough (working on that) and I run it up on a pile of wood in the Ural Too (keeping the left cylinder level) and it all felt smoother when I moved it out from front (snow forecast and indeed coming down or was).
Ural Too.JPG
I never had 3 way adjustable shocks though the R80GS did not need it (never a normal BMW but that long stroke suspension was beyond belief in soaking up bad stuff )

HCS has a lot less stoke to work with. I have some speed bumps I will try it over when I get some dry roads (and higher temps!)
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Fear No Gravel
Formerly Owned: ( various rides on others)
Honda 90
2 x CB750K (one a true Japan Model flown to Hawaii by a P3 Orion Sub Patrol Aircraft!)
1 x CB700 SC ala Shaft Drive Nighthawk S (RC20 is the actual in house production Model)
1 x R80GS (ok to start with, learned to love it for what it was)
1 x CB450K

Current:
1 x 2019 cT Terracotta

What I Did (I quit June 2 , 2019)
Mechanic/Technician/Engineer: Electro Mechanical Systems

RC20
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Re: cT Sidecar Shock Removal

Post by RC20 » Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:11 pm

I posted in the mods a more detailed report, short is I ran a nasty test stretch and hammered them and they passed with flying colors. Kalarim and Claus are spot on - huge improvement. I don't see the roads up North being an issue any more.
Fear No Gravel
Formerly Owned: ( various rides on others)
Honda 90
2 x CB750K (one a true Japan Model flown to Hawaii by a P3 Orion Sub Patrol Aircraft!)
1 x CB700 SC ala Shaft Drive Nighthawk S (RC20 is the actual in house production Model)
1 x R80GS (ok to start with, learned to love it for what it was)
1 x CB450K

Current:
1 x 2019 cT Terracotta

What I Did (I quit June 2 , 2019)
Mechanic/Technician/Engineer: Electro Mechanical Systems

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Kaliram
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Re: cT Sidecar Shock Removal

Post by Kaliram » Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:41 am

Aho!
Current ride: 2019 Ural Gear Up, O.D. Green (“Jyoti”)
Blasts in the past: 2016 Ural Gear Up ("Shanti ")
2012 Ural Gear Up ("Tootles")
2009 KLX250, 2009 KLR650, 2004 BMW R1150GSA, 1966 Honda 305 SuperHawk

“Your life comes with a lifetime guarantee.”

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Re: cT Sidecar Shock Removal

Post by Snakeoil » Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:03 pm

When I was testing the Ikons, it never occurred to me that the stop bumper would come off. I did not see a fastener head underneath and assumed it was bonded to the bracket. Removing that bumper would have made it a bit easier.

I compressed the shock with a ratchet strap. Wrapped the shock with cardboard so I would not scratch the spring and cranked on the ratchet strap until it would just drop in place. Takes a lot of force on the ratchet handle and a cheapo strap cannot take it. I actually bent a handle on a cheap one. Took out the old one in the same fashion. Easier to crank on the ratchet because you can compress the shock with your body pushing down on the hack fender. I still would not want to do this on a daily basis. They must have some sort of quick action spring compressor in Irbit for installing the hack shocks. If the rubber bumper bracket were bolted on instead of welding, it would be a snap.
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Re: cT Sidecar Shock Removal

Post by windmill » Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:11 pm

Snakeoil wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:03 pm
When I was testing the Ikons, it never occurred to me that the stop bumper would come off. I did not see a fastener head underneath and assumed it was bonded to the bracket. Removing that bumper would have made it a bit easier.

I still would not want to do this on a daily basis. They must have some sort of quick action spring compressor in Irbit for installing the hack shocks. If the rubber bumper bracket were bolted on instead of welding, it would be a snap.
The rubber bumper just pulls off, no fasteners or anything, just a friction fit on a pin. A removable bracket would be slower and more complicated. Taking the shock off and putting it on without the bumper in place is a snap, no special tools needed.
IMG_3488.JPG
With the bumper removed, the shock can relax to full extension, and the bottom shock mount clears the bumper bracket by about 1/4'-5/16".
IMG_3480.JPG
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Barry

"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills".

2007 Patrol 100k km and counting,
2018/20 M70

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Re: cT Sidecar Shock Removal

Post by RC20 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:23 pm

2. Lay on sidecar fender facing rear to compress suspension which will lift bottom shock mount off rubber stop bumper.
I tried it with the Sachs and even full release on the spring tension no go.

The HCS does have the movement to access it. Hmm, did not think to look, so much for assumptions but then its cold and ..... and ... and ....


Nice as the HCS is harder to adjust that spring tensions with two lock nuts vs the Sachs type adjuster (you can see the dual lock nut setup)
IMG_0046.JPG
So I could have pulled it, put it all back together then leaned on the fender and slipped it in.

Or had my wife do it but then I have to consider can I reach it myself or have my wife sit on the fender and do I dare do that?
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Fear No Gravel
Formerly Owned: ( various rides on others)
Honda 90
2 x CB750K (one a true Japan Model flown to Hawaii by a P3 Orion Sub Patrol Aircraft!)
1 x CB700 SC ala Shaft Drive Nighthawk S (RC20 is the actual in house production Model)
1 x R80GS (ok to start with, learned to love it for what it was)
1 x CB450K

Current:
1 x 2019 cT Terracotta

What I Did (I quit June 2 , 2019)
Mechanic/Technician/Engineer: Electro Mechanical Systems

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windmill
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Re: cT Sidecar Shock Removal

Post by windmill » Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:37 am

I guess that's where weighing 230 lbs is an advantage. Just putting my weight on the fender and step is enough to lift the mount 1.5"+ off the bumper, and laying there I could just reach down and pull it off.

Someone lighter or less limber could have a helper stand on the step, or weigh it down with something in the tub.
Barry

"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills".

2007 Patrol 100k km and counting,
2018/20 M70

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Re: cT Sidecar Shock Removal

Post by RC20 » Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:07 pm

Lets just say that I have a bit of a weight advantage on you and the Sachs was not moving. That explains a lot as to why Sachs does not work as well as I can clearly see the action discussed on the swing arm movement etc on the HCS.
Fear No Gravel
Formerly Owned: ( various rides on others)
Honda 90
2 x CB750K (one a true Japan Model flown to Hawaii by a P3 Orion Sub Patrol Aircraft!)
1 x CB700 SC ala Shaft Drive Nighthawk S (RC20 is the actual in house production Model)
1 x R80GS (ok to start with, learned to love it for what it was)
1 x CB450K

Current:
1 x 2019 cT Terracotta

What I Did (I quit June 2 , 2019)
Mechanic/Technician/Engineer: Electro Mechanical Systems

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windmill
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Re: cT Sidecar Shock Removal

Post by windmill » Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:22 pm

RC20 wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:07 pm
Lets just say that I have a bit of a weight advantage on you and the Sachs was not moving. That explains a lot as to why Sachs does not work as well as I can clearly see the action discussed on the swing arm movement etc on the HCS.
Makes me wonder if you had a bad shock there. With it on the lightest setting I can bottom it out by standing on the step and bouncing it a little bit.
Barry

"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills".

2007 Patrol 100k km and counting,
2018/20 M70

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Re: cT Sidecar Shock Removal

Post by RC20 » Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:40 pm

Possible, variation in springs and or quality control ? I did look at it hard as I was trying to sort out that operation (failing ng as noted) - I am still having to just go look at it and its not that complicated. Sheese.

Horst sends the HCS out with pre set to what his experience says is a good start settings for all 3 (spring, compression and rebound). Fronts have one setting, rears another and the side car a third.

I am not even sure I would know what to change if I did not like it but clearly its a good starter and maybe good overall to just leave though the compression and rebound are very easy.

It just occurred to me I had the spare wheel off the mount for spring swap over on the studs (I decided to just pull them off the pusher as I would have to swap the spare to the front due to wear and the front to the rear and..............................

That weight would make some difference but as you noted, a bounce thing would get some motion and it sure was not.
Fear No Gravel
Formerly Owned: ( various rides on others)
Honda 90
2 x CB750K (one a true Japan Model flown to Hawaii by a P3 Orion Sub Patrol Aircraft!)
1 x CB700 SC ala Shaft Drive Nighthawk S (RC20 is the actual in house production Model)
1 x R80GS (ok to start with, learned to love it for what it was)
1 x CB450K

Current:
1 x 2019 cT Terracotta

What I Did (I quit June 2 , 2019)
Mechanic/Technician/Engineer: Electro Mechanical Systems

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