Flying the chair

Newbies, introduce yourself here. Are you thinking about getting one and have questions? Ask your basic questions here. Please post any tech questions in "The Order of The Greasy Wrench" section.
Forum rules
Here's the place for those who are newb or thinking about buying a Ural or Dnepr to introduce themselves ask those typical "newbie" questions. Try using the "Search" link at the top of the page to see if your question may have been asked before. Please post any tech questions in "The Order of the Greasy Wrench" section.
Canadian FJR
Party Member
Party Member
Posts: 202
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 12:57 pm
Location: Trenton, Nova Scotia

Flying the chair

Post by Canadian FJR » Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:45 pm

I love pulling wheelies on the two wheeled bike and starting to get the hang of flying the chair on the Ural.

Are there any specific wear or stress items that I should pay particular attention to during regular maintenance that are should be watching for? I can usually set the sidecar down fairly smooth.



Canadian FJR
2010 Gear Up

User avatar
ReCycled
Order of Suvarov
Order of Suvarov
Posts: 2519
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:10 am
Location: Broomall, PA

Re: Flying the chair

Post by ReCycled » Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:05 pm

Doesn't seem to be an issue generally. But if pusher spokes are loose, they'll go South in a hurry.
David B.
'07 Ural Twourist

Canadian FJR
Party Member
Party Member
Posts: 202
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 12:57 pm
Location: Trenton, Nova Scotia

Re: Flying the chair

Post by Canadian FJR » Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:29 pm

Thanks, I’ll check them tonight


Canadian FJR
2010 Gear Up

RC20
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Posts: 2885
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:59 am
Location: Anchorage AK

Re: Flying the chair

Post by RC20 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:58 pm

From the video I have seen some people live to fly the chair and do it almost regularly on a right turn (not me)

But if you look at the suspension on that side, its robust, shock etc. Maybe the good news is in not optimizing the weight , you have a very solid frame and setup that can take real abuse let alone chair landing. Its hell for stout in other words!

It may well be a pothole has more G loading than landing the chair.

Certainly keep an eye on things but we should anyway.
Fear No Gravel
Formerly Owned: ( various rides on others)
Honda 90
2 x CB750K (one a true Japan Model flown to Hawaii by a P3 Orion Sub Patrol Aircraft!)
1 x CB700 SC ala Shaft Drive Nighthawk S (RC20 is the actual in house production Model)
1 x R80GS (ok to start with, learned to love it for what it was)
1 x CB450K

Current:
1 x 2019 cT Terracotta

What I Did (I quit June 2 , 2019)
Mechanic/Technician/Engineer: Electro Mechanical Systems

User avatar
SidecarDan
Order of Lenin
Order of Lenin
Posts: 1018
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:18 am
Location: Abbotsford BC

Re: Flying the chair

Post by SidecarDan » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:29 pm

I fly the chair so often I've worn the left shoulder off every pusher I've ever had on the bike. Luck is on my side as I have not had any loose spokes yet, and I'm not a delicate little guy either.
Dan
2012 Forest Fog Gear-Up
128/42 jets
7/64ths drilled slides
2013 branch pipes
Yamaha petcock

Canadian FJR
Party Member
Party Member
Posts: 202
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 12:57 pm
Location: Trenton, Nova Scotia

Re: Flying the chair

Post by Canadian FJR » Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:03 pm

👍🏼
2010 Gear Up

mjrally
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:40 am
Location: Oceanside, CA

Re: Flying the chair

Post by mjrally » Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:49 am

Not sure if it was just mine, but after an hour of practicing flying the chair, I lost my final drive dipstick on the drive home.
2011 Tourist

User avatar
upstate ny
Party Member
Party Member
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:13 am
Location: Adams NY

Re: Flying the chair

Post by upstate ny » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:42 pm

I use to 'fly the chair' when I would pull into my work parking lot at 0600. I could do full loops to show off.

Never again after I found the cracks in my rim, along the spoke nipple. I know there were production problems with the rims, but figured it couldn't be good for them. No idea if this was the cause, but it was such a pain to get the rim replaced, so I quit doing it.
2012 Ural Tourist, Sweet Molly Malone 56,000km's
2004 BMW R1150RT 86,000 miles
'A man's got to know his limitations'

Canadian FJR
Party Member
Party Member
Posts: 202
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 12:57 pm
Location: Trenton, Nova Scotia

Re: Flying the chair

Post by Canadian FJR » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:29 pm

Pusher or chair rim?


Canadian FJR
2010 Gear Up

stagewex
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Posts: 8328
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:45 pm
Location: New Rochelle, New York

Re: Flying the chair

Post by stagewex » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:43 pm

Almost an absolute "must do" to learn to fly the chair as there will eventually come a time when it will happen unplanned.
But like my buddies who like to do wheelies all the time on their 2-wheelers, they always seem to be the folks with the front suspension issues or fork seals gone bad all the time.

I wouldn't do it as a regular basis other than to re-acquaint myself every once and awhile. And of course show-off, haha.
I have steel wheels that are pushing 14 years old and so far have been lucky not to have some of the issues on the newer (but not that much newer) Ural model wheels & rims.

Into my third year of ownership and riding thought the Winter the Russian "chrome" on the rims and spokes were pretty bad. After having the hubs and rims media blasted I sent them to Buchanon for their custom version of stainless-steel ones. They would not accept or lace new Ural spokes.
Over-the-top work for sidecar duty.

And who cares if they aren't actually round :)
Stagewex

2019 Honda CRF450L (Elec Start)
2008 Vespa 150S (Elec & Kick Start)
2007 Ural Patrol (2WD, Elec & Kick Start)
1991 Honda XR250L (Kick Start Only)

PhilJet09
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:49 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: Flying the chair

Post by PhilJet09 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:17 pm

I fly my chair all the time, haven’t noticed any related problems. Then again, it’s a Ural so you never know what’ll happen.
2016 Forest Fog Gear Up
2009 FJR go-to-work vehicle

Canadian FJR
Party Member
Party Member
Posts: 202
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 12:57 pm
Location: Trenton, Nova Scotia

Re: Flying the chair

Post by Canadian FJR » Thu Nov 26, 2020 5:42 pm

2010 Gear Up

User avatar
Mr Wazzock
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Posts: 6507
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:22 pm
Location: Boston, UK
Contact:

Re: Flying the chair

Post by Mr Wazzock » Thu Nov 26, 2020 7:46 pm

Canadian FJR wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:45 pm
I love pulling wheelies on the two wheeled bike and starting to get the hang of flying the chair on the Ural.

Are there any specific wear or stress items that I should pay particular attention to during regular maintenance that are should be watching for? I can usually set the sidecar down fairly smooth.



Canadian FJR
Tire walls, rims, sidecar struts.

Practice to know what to do if / when it happens fine, but not as a regular habit.
Mike H
2016 Ural cT, in glorious terracotta
(aka Oranzhevaya Opasnost, "The Orange Peril")

User avatar
Snakeoil
Order of Victory
Order of Victory
Posts: 5149
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:45 pm
Location: Upstate NY

Re: Flying the chair

Post by Snakeoil » Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:32 pm

Not sure I agree that sidewalls and rims are a concern, cracked aluminum rims notwithstanding. But the spokes see an entirely different load when you fly the car. Putting a solo bike into a corner with it leaned over still has the spokes in tension, which is the load they are designed to handle. But when you fly the car, you are not putting the same loads on the wheels. Rather you are putting a side load on the spokes and that causes them to flex/bend which they are not designed to do. This is why the spokes on a sidecar rig are so much beefier. The cornering loads do the same to the spokes. They put bending stresses into them.

What I have never seen is any kind of study that compares the side loads from cornering a sidecar rig compared to the side loads from flying the chair. It could very well be that the corner loads (g's) are higher than the flying loads which would mean that flying the chair is not doing anything that the rig was not designed to handle.

The struts I personally feel are bullet-proof when in compression which is the condition in a left hander. They are in tension during a right hander and the load increases until the hack wheel leaves the ground. The higher the hack wheel goes, the lower the load on the struts because gravity is the load factor. So, a sharp right hander that just has the hack wheel starting to lose contact is the point at which the load is greatest on the struts. That is not to say that you should not be concerned about that area. But rather than worry about the struts, I'd be more inclined to worry about the quality of the welds on the frame lug to which the struts attach. There was a recent thread regarding the eyebolt failing on struts. We beat the subject pretty hard. I came away that those eyebolts that failed did so either due to poor quality material or the bolt being over-torqued and set up to fail.

Keep an eye on your spokes. If you have aluminum rims, keep an eye on them. They have been known to crack sitting still. Make sure your struts and all mounts are snug. Tomcatfixxer is a notorious hack flyer and from what I've read here, should probably have a ski with a caster wheel in place of his hack wheel for when he has to park or be in slow traffic. If anyone will have loose spokes from flying, it should be him and I've not seen him post anything about that.

One more, let's beat this a bit further, point. Harley and Indian produced sidecar rigs for many years, including two world wars. As far as I know, they never made a special spoke for sidecar applications. If breaking or loosening spokes were a problem with rigs, I would have expected one or both of those companies to have come out with sidecar specific spokes/wheels to address the issue. The only sidecar specific components I'm aware of were rake adjustable front forks to make steering easier and friction dampers to quell a shakey front wheel. I own a '47 HD and the manual specifically states to set the steering damper for zero damping when in solo use. So, it was sidecar specific which demonstrates that they were paying attention to sidecars.

Wow, this got long. Should not reply after pouring a glass of homemade Dago-red.
Regards,
Rob
Proud member of the Peanut Gallery
Certified Blatherer
2000 Ural Tourist
40 Pilots, 122 Mains
Before you say something stupid, always ask yourself, "What would Harpo say?".

User avatar
windmill
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Posts: 9072
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:17 am
Location: Kent, Wa 98042

Re: Flying the chair

Post by windmill » Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:00 pm

In regards to the alloy rims, there's 2 possible issues with them. Those that weren't manufactured correctly, which were the subject of a recall. The other is when the spokes are over torqued which happened for a short time at the factory after switching to outsourced spokes, or if done inadvertently by an uninformed owner, or dealer.

Alloy rims can't be forced into true by cranking down on the spokes like steel rims, or tension "checked" by giving them all a 1/4 turn. Truing, and tensioning must be done correctly. That's simply the way things are with alloy Vs steel rims, and not unique to Ural. The correct torque is only 14 in lbs, and best done with a slip torque wrench.

In either instance, they're likely to fail regardless of how carefully they're treated. Outside of those issues, flying the chair, brisk street, and off pavement riding are not going to be a problem.
Barry

"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills".

2007 Patrol 100k km and counting,
2018/20 M70

Post Reply