Official 2nd Generation Keihin EFI retrofit kit

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windmill
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Re: Official 2nd Generation Keihin EFI retrofit kit

Post by windmill » Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:08 am

eastbloc wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:54 am
After watching the Heindl cold start video comparison, I might very well be tempted into forking over the $2k when the retrofit for earlier bikes becomes available.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtWcAu8D0TM

It ain't cheap, but it's the one thing I deplore most about my '14 other than the powder coat failure. $2200 buys a lot of starting fluid but man, do I want my bike to start like the one in the video.
From what I've learned, you should at least feel vindicated.

That you, and a few others have had a terrible time with the Electrojet system when most others haven't, isn't your imagination. There can be some serious inconsistencies with its hardware, and function that isn't easy to identify.

The one unique thing about the retrofit kit that differs from the standard 2019 setup is it's cold start, and run map. A bike with the kit installed should start easier and run smoother when cold, than a OE 2019. Once up to operating temperature then the kit, and OE 2019 run the same.
Barry

"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills".

2007 Patrol 100k km and counting,
2018/20 M70

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Re: Official 2nd Generation Keihin EFI retrofit kit

Post by siberman1 » Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:58 pm

Pterodactyl wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:12 pm
Debating about which is the most powerful FI Ural is like the ladies of a brothel arguing about who is the most virtuous.
yeah...

like Virgin Olive Oil and Extra Virgin Olive Oil. :oops: :sarcasm:

YMMV
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Re: Official 2nd Generation Keihin EFI retrofit kit

Post by windmill » Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:13 pm

siberman1 wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:58 pm
Pterodactyl wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:12 pm
Debating about which is the most powerful FI Ural is like the ladies of a brothel arguing about who is the most virtuous.
yeah...

like Virgin Olive Oil and Extra Virgin Olive Oil. :oops: :sarcasm:

YMMV
Perhaps so, but there is a meaningful and noticeable difference, otherwise I wouldn't be doing it, and its a heck of a lot cheaper than upgrading to a 2020.
Barry

"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills".

2007 Patrol 100k km and counting,
2018/20 M70

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Re: Official 2nd Generation Keihin EFI retrofit kit

Post by siberman1 » Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:28 pm

windmill wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:13 pm
siberman1 wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:58 pm
Pterodactyl wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:12 pm
Debating about which is the most powerful FI Ural is like the ladies of a brothel arguing about who is the most virtuous.
yeah...

like Virgin Olive Oil and Extra Virgin Olive Oil. :oops: :sarcasm:

YMMV
Perhaps so, but there is a meaningful and noticeable difference, otherwise I wouldn't be doing it, and its a heck of a lot cheaper than upgrading to a 2020.
I meant no offense, just the goofy semantics we have these days, my kind of humor.

After watchung the Heindle comparison, I'd be tempted. My 2014 has not been that bad overall, and I sort of-semi live with it. On a fixed retirement "income" ( :sarcasm: ), $2100 is a lot of $$$.

YMMV
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Re: Official 2nd Generation Keihin EFI retrofit kit

Post by windmill » Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:11 pm

siberman1 wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:28 pm

I meant no offense, just the goofy semantics we have these days, my kind of humor.

After watchung the Heindle comparison, I'd be tempted. My 2014 has not been that bad overall, and I sort of-semi live with it. On a fixed retirement "income" ( :sarcasm: ), $2100 is a lot of $$$.

YMMV
No worries, it cam be easy to confuse interpretation with intent.

My 2018 hasn't been that bad either, and its a major expenditure for our budget, but its also my "car" that I ride every day. It also helps that I don't have any other expensive habits or toys.

Having ridden a 2019 the "temptation" has become a real desire because they're just so nice.
Barry

"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills".

2007 Patrol 100k km and counting,
2018/20 M70

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Re: Official 2nd Generation Keihin EFI retrofit kit

Post by siberman1 » Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:53 pm

windmill wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:11 pm
....snip.....

Having ridden a 2019 the "temptation" has become a real desire because they're just so nice.
ya ponimayu


YMMV
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Re: Official 2nd Generation Keihin EFI retrofit kit

Post by windmill » Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:36 pm

My M70 is in IMWA's hands, and I'm on a loaner "2019" Gear-up pre production prototype. It's actually older than 2019 and has been flogged on, but the virtues of the 2nd generation EFI are still readily apparent.

On my way home I had to deal with Seattle's infamous commuter traffic, and some really nasty weather, but I was still grinning ear to ear. The only down sides are the small sport wind screen, with no leg guards so there's little protection from the elements, and the enduro bench seat which had me squirming in discomfort in less than an hour.

The smoothness, and crisp throttle response, without the Electrojets low rpm hiccups made the traffic more tolerable. I had been getting a little apprehensive about the cost, but the ride home reminded me why it will be worth it.

I decided to do the full Monty, in addition to the upgrade kit, I'm having them do the entire 2019 top end, breather, sump, and pump. The only 2019 feature I won't have is the in tank fuel pump.
Barry

"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills".

2007 Patrol 100k km and counting,
2018/20 M70

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Re: Official 2nd Generation Keihin EFI retrofit kit

Post by MojaveSidecar » Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:50 am

windmill wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:36 pm

...

I decided to do the full Monty, in addition to the upgrade kit, I'm having them do the entire 2019 top end, breather, sump, and pump. The only 2019 feature I won't have is the in tank fuel pump.
Wait, are you saying the 2019 pistons, cylinders and heads can be retrofitted to an earlier year Ural?
Randy
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Re: Official 2nd Generation Keihin EFI retrofit kit

Post by windmill » Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:50 am

MojaveSidecar wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:50 am
windmill wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:36 pm

...

I decided to do the full Monty, in addition to the upgrade kit, I'm having them do the entire 2019 top end, breather, sump, and pump. The only 2019 feature I won't have is the in tank fuel pump.
Wait, are you saying the 2019 pistons, cylinders and heads can be retrofitted to an earlier year Ural?
Yes, they can be retrofitted to older Urals. The new design rings, or piston and rings together can be also be used on 2018s or older rigs with "A" pistons.

The new breather will fit all 2014 to 2018 Urals. The new oil pump and sump as a pair will fit all 750's.
Barry

"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills".

2007 Patrol 100k km and counting,
2018/20 M70

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Re: Official 2nd Generation Keihin EFI retrofit kit

Post by MojaveSidecar » Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:13 pm

windmill wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:50 am

Yes, they can be retrofitted to older Urals. The new design rings, or piston and rings together can be also be used on 2018s or older rigs with "A" pistons.

The new breather will fit all 2014 to 2018 Urals. The new oil pump and sump as a pair will fit all 750's.
You mention the rings and pistons, how about the 2019 cylinders and heads, can they be retrofitted?
If so, which year models can be retrofitted?
Randy
06 GearUp Forest Camo
00 DRZ441 - E plated, Nova Wide Ratio Gear Set, Moto-Mule Trailer
01 DRZ400 - E green sticker
01 KLR/DMC Enduro Sidecar (sold)
11 GearUp Gobi (sold)
Looking for a Ural ST solo to add to the stable.

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Re: Official 2nd Generation Keihin EFI retrofit kit

Post by windmill » Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:24 pm

MojaveSidecar wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:13 pm
windmill wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:50 am

Yes, they can be retrofitted to older Urals. The new design rings, or piston and rings together can be also be used on 2018s or older rigs with "A" pistons.

The new breather will fit all 2014 to 2018 Urals. The new oil pump and sump as a pair will fit all 750's.
You mention the rings and pistons, how about the 2019 cylinders and heads, can they be retrofitted?
If so, which year models can be retrofitted?
From what I understand, the 2019 pistons, cylinders, and heads will fit all 750's.
Barry

"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills".

2007 Patrol 100k km and counting,
2018/20 M70

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Re: Official 2nd Generation Keihin EFI retrofit kit

Post by windmill » Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:18 pm

harryball wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:38 pm
My Retro now has 14,000+ miles on it and if they think rebuilding the top end of yours is a good idea to accommodate the kit, I have to wonder what they would think of this one.
They were speculating on some borescope images, and some variation in compression between cylinders. Now that they have the engine apart they say everything is fine, and it doesn't need anything.
That means the entire top end is on my dime now, but decided to go for it anyway. Might as well take advantage of the free labor, and discount on parts when available so I don't regret not doing it later when it would cost more.
Barry

"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills".

2007 Patrol 100k km and counting,
2018/20 M70

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Re: Official 2nd Generation Keihin EFI retrofit kit

Post by Ironhand » Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:12 pm

I love that they are offering the kit, but honestly, I feel a bit salty about the pricing. Don't get me wrong, I love my rig, and its many quirks are worth it on balance against the fun I've had on it, but let's be real. The FI is the only real technology on an objectively horribly overpriced bike. The fact that they allowed these early model FI rigs out of the factory tuned the way they are should embarrass them. In that light it seems like they could do better than a $200 exchange.
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Re: Official 2nd Generation Keihin EFI retrofit kit

Post by windmill » Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:04 pm

Ironhand wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:12 pm
I love that they are offering the kit, but honestly, I feel a bit salty about the pricing. Don't get me wrong, I love my rig, and its many quirks are worth it on balance against the fun I've had on it, but let's be real. The FI is the only real technology on an objectively horribly overpriced bike. The fact that they allowed these early model FI rigs out of the factory tuned the way they are should embarrass them. In that light it seems like they could do better than a $200 exchange.
They were behind the 8 ball to meet new EPA and EEU emission standards, and Electrojet was the only manufacturer willing to work with Ural at the time because of the small numbers. Considering the limitations of the Electrojet system, it could have been better....for a price. A price that was better spent on a more capable system from a more reliable manufacturer. It took Ural several years to convince Keihin to work with them.

That they're willing to buy back good throttle bodies calls for a little reading between the lines.
Barry

"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills".

2007 Patrol 100k km and counting,
2018/20 M70

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Re: Official 2nd Generation Keihin EFI retrofit kit

Post by GHGoodwin » Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:00 pm

My .02. Here's what they should do. Take my '14 back for what I paid for it minus Heindl's profit. I'll strip my mods off and buy a '20. Between the lousy EFI and the more than lousy brakes the '14 was the biggest waste of $$ on a bike I've ever had. It took me over a year to get it running and stopping right.

As far as buying back throttle bodies. I "read between the lines" as removing evidence of incompetence rather than making it right. I have a spare set - maybe they'll just send me $400. :wink:
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