iKon Suspension for Urals

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IkonUSA
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iKon Suspension for Urals

Post by IkonUSA » Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:32 pm

Brievietsthir list members,

Roger from iKon Suspension USA reaching out to forum members for some information on OEM shocks.

We're starting to get more and more inquiries and orders for suspension to fit Urals but I have a few questions with regard to any suspension dimension changes which may have taken place over the years.

Presently, we offer our 7610 series shock absorber part# 7610-1664 which measures (from center of top eye to center of lower mount clevis) 325mm or 12.8" with an inside lower clevis width of 25mm and a 10mm hole for the fixing bolt. We list this as being suitable for all Ural models from 2008 to the present and is suitable for front, rear and sidecar suspension.

My question to forum members is with regards to earlier Urals. What is different (if anything) about the shock absorbers used on Urals prior to 2008?

'Appreciate your input.

Roger
iKon Suspension USA
Bedford, PA

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Re: iKon Suspension for Urals

Post by Claus » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:02 pm

Roger, from my shop experience the length from center of top eye to center of lower mount clevis is 320mm. Inside width is 25mm. On the clevis there is a thread M10x1 on one side. This is mandatory to mount the shock absorber on the sidecar swingarm, because there´s not enough space for a nut.
The top eye is 14mm for fitting to the rear mounts and sidecar. Only the front shocks have a bushing with 10mm inner diameter.
325mm is the original lenght of Dnepr Shocks and is a pain to get mounted on the Ural sidecar because of the rubber stop, that restricts the move of the swingarm.

May anyone of the forum correct me if I forgot something.

Claus
owned bikes: 93 Ural rig domestic model, 95 Suzuki DR 659 RSE, BMW R100GS, Suzuki GSX1100G rig, BMW R100R rig with Ural sidecar, Ural rig with BMW drivetrain under construction,

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Re: iKon Suspension for Urals

Post by Lmo » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:09 pm

I'm learning from you Claus. My personal experience, at this point, is the re-build of six Russian shocks. I'm in an odd situation... Dnepr motorcycle frame and sidecar ... but Ural leading link. God only know what year the Dnepr really is... which may be a concern for a lot of owners.

Another issue; spring rate (unknown) and spring load rate. The Russian shocks aren't that bad, really, but the springs are garbage.

Roger, I can't locate part# 7610-1664 Can you provide us with a link.

BTW, thanks for taking an interest is a niche market (if it's even that, yet).
Lew Morris
Dnepr w/ '06 Ural Drive Train
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Re: iKon Suspension for Urals

Post by tx2sturgis » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:29 pm

And I wonder if the rear shocks on the Solos (sT, Wolf, and Retro) are included in the 'all Urals' statement...

Now THERE is a niche market if there ever was one!

:foilhead:
Current Ural: 2013 Ural Solo sT

Previous Ural: 2013 Ural Patrol

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Re: iKon Suspension for Urals

Post by Claus » Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:08 am

tx2sturgis wrote:And I wonder if the rear shocks on the Solos (sT, Wolf, and Retro) are included in the 'all Urals' statement...

Now THERE is a niche market if there ever was one!

:foilhead:
Good point! I have no clue about Wolf and Retro Solo Shock absorbers.. The Ural 650 Solo as sold in Europe has a way different spring rate (softer).
owned bikes: 93 Ural rig domestic model, 95 Suzuki DR 659 RSE, BMW R100GS, Suzuki GSX1100G rig, BMW R100R rig with Ural sidecar, Ural rig with BMW drivetrain under construction,

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Re: iKon Suspension for Urals

Post by Lee Pape » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:01 am

I have owned a 2000 Ural Tourist and a 2007 Ural Tourist. I know that they were the same as shock fitment. On my current Ural Tourist (2007) I installed a set of Gazzi shocks. The company that was the importer at the time test fitted them on a 2012 Patrol when they made the bottom clevis. The only trouble I had to over come was the interference between the spring on the shock and the front disc brake caliper. I just made a longer brake reaction link to rotate the caliper forward a little bit.
Image
Gazzi shock

Image
Ural shock

Image
Top OEM brake reaction link, bottom the new link that I made.

Image

Image
Gazzi shock installed with new brake reaction link.
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Riding and working on Urals since 2000.

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Re: iKon Suspension for Urals

Post by IkonUSA » Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:13 pm

Interesting thread developing on suspension.

Thank you Claus for the dimensions. They're the same as the iKon Ural application which to date we've listed in the application catalog as being suitable for 2008-2012. Good to know. I'm thinking these fitment dates could possibly be extended? Certainly to the 2017 models which I examined on the Ural booth (with the consent of David George of Ural) at the 2017 International Motorcycle Show in both NYC and Cleveland. Would anyone know when these units using these dimensions were first installed on Urals? Are there any (sidecar) models/years which used a dimensionally different shock absorber?

I'm here to gather information not to promote iKon, but with regard to the Russian 'niche' market bikes such as the Wolf, Retro etc. referred to by Brian, suspension units for those bike shouldn't be a problem as long as I have accurate dimensions, or preferably an OEM unit to measure and send in the dimensions to the iKon factory in Australia.

As iKon are a true manufacturer and not re-branding Mexican, Chinese or Pacific rim made units (iKon shock absorbers are made form Australian and (Western) European made components) the factory is very capable when it comes to building 1 -off (or 2 off) 'Specials' usually at about $50/pr. above the regular unit price.

Thanks to thread contributors,
Roger

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Re: iKon Suspension for Urals

Post by siberman1 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:13 pm

Lee Pape wrote:I have owned a 2000 Ural Tourist and a 2007 Ural Tourist. I know that they were the same as shock fitment. On my current Ural Tourist (2007) I installed a set of Gazzi shocks. The company that was the importer at the time test fitted them on a 2012 Patrol when they made the bottom clevis. The only trouble I had to over come was the interference between the spring on the shock and the front disc brake caliper. I just made a longer brake reaction link to rotate the caliper forward a little bit.....

Is the "brake reaction link" as you call it supposed to be loose fitting? I mean on a 2014 I can move the caliper back and forward about 1mm, it is not tight. Is that what it is supposed to be? Curious.

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Re: iKon Suspension for Urals

Post by Snakeoil » Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:21 pm

I just went out and measured my 2000 650 Tourist with the tug on the center stand and a jack to raise the front. Also raised the hack chassis so the swingarm hung from the shock.

Length
Front measured 12-9/16" center to center or 319mm. Using a tape so plus or minus.
Rear measured 12-1/2" or 317.5mm, and suspect the difference is due to the rubber stop not letting the swingarm hang off the shocks.
Hack also measured 12-9/16" or 319mm.

Clevises

All clevises I could get to with a caliper were 0.975" or 24.8mm.

Top Eye
Front measured 0.960 or 24.4mm
Rear measured 1.160 or 29.5mm
To Claus' point bushing differences may drive this. The rubber bushings also seem to stick out further on the rears.
I could not get to the hack shock with the caliper

Taking it a bit further, I looked at the parts diagrams on the Holopaw site. Info below is a cut and paste from those web pages.

Same shock used in all 5 locations. See diagrams below for hardware details

Front LL fork http://holopawural.com/leading-link-fork.html
Shock - Fig. 20 - #5 Sachs Shock absorber 2008 and newer (black only) Black or chrome available, call for details
IMZ-8.1037-26001-08

Rear Swingarm http://holopawural.com/frame.html
Shock - Fig. 22 - #5 Sachs shock absorber chrome chrome available, call for details black also available call for price
IMZ-8.1037-26001-08

Standard Sidecar http://holopawural.com/standard-sidecar.html
Shock - Fig. 32 - #9 Sachs shock absorber Chrome
IMZ-8.1037-26001-08

2WD Sidecar http://holopawural.com/2wd-sidecar.html
Fig. 33 - #11 Sachs shock absorber black Chrome available, please call for details
IMZ-8.1037-26001-08
Last edited by Snakeoil on Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Regards,
Rob
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Re: iKon Suspension for Urals

Post by Lmo » Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:15 pm

Roger, may I suggest that a little "reverse engineering" might be in order; i.e. lay hands on some Sachs, OEM Ural, and Hagon (cough) and compare. Spring rates, and spring loading values, (for sidecar equipped machine) are data that I have not been able to find.

"Fitting" per se, isn't enough, unless the overall product (damping and suspension) is what the word represents.

Thanks for posting those dimension Rob.

edit - With Sachs at $192 per shock, if you're suggesting that Ikons would go for $240 per unit, or roughly $1,200USD to equip a leading link sidecar rig, you may find a bit of price resistance, at least from me. I have Ikons on my BMW R75/5 and love the difference they made in handling, but for my sidecar rig... it just isn't that appealing, for that price. At $220 per PAIR, Hagons are more appealing (even though they aren't exactly a perfect match).
Lew Morris
Dnepr w/ '06 Ural Drive Train
C5 Power Arc
125/42 jets
Drilled slides/
.030" shims

1973 BMW R75/5 (original owner)
1947 HD FL (long gone, forever regretful)

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Re: iKon Suspension for Urals

Post by Snakeoil » Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:24 pm

I have a friend with a K-bike based EML sidecar rig. EML is out of business, but somebody is using the name (maybe still them) and offering parts and such. Their shocks were built in-house. So other than dimensions, not much info out there. All of his are leaking and needing rebuild. EML gets $162/each to rebuild plus shipping to Holland. Better move would be to go with Ikons or similar brand.

My point is, you point regarding spring rates etc. for the different locations would be interesting. Since the part numbers are all the same for the Sachs shocks, my guess is they are all identical and spring rates are the same. Makes you wonder if someone that knows the physics behind Ural rigs and had good suspension knowlege took a hard look at Urals, could the ride and handling be improved with a properly specified set of shocks for all 5 corners? I have to believe there is room for lots of improvement in this area.

Reminds me of my study regarding the weight on each of the 3 wheels on my rig. I would think that info, along with similar info with a rider and an average sized monkey on board would be helpful/useful to Ikon as well. I'll see if I can dig up my numbers. I think I recorded them and posted them here. But gray hair still rules in this house.

UPDATE: I found the post from 2016 where I tried to measure the weigh loading for each of the 3 wheels on the rig. My bathroom scaled was maxxed out for the tug wheels. Only info of value in the post was the hack wheel registered 153 lb with nobody on the bike. When I got on the bike (I weighed 190 at the time) hack load decreased to 148 lbs.
Regards,
Rob
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Re: iKon Suspension for Urals

Post by tx2sturgis » Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:49 pm

Here is what came on my 2013 Ural Solo sT. I am the second owner, the original owner told me that these are what was on the bike when he bought it new.

I have no idea if they are standard...or maybe an upgrade the dealer did?

Just not sure.

But the take-away is, that they fit, ride well, and handle my 220 pound rider weight plus extras in the bags etc.
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Current Ural: 2013 Ural Solo sT

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Re: iKon Suspension for Urals

Post by IkonUSA » Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:49 pm

Thanks to all (Lew, Brian and Rob) for the time you've taken to provide specifics and input on the subject.

As Lew correctly states, the suspension units have to be more than just a sum of all parts, they must perform in a manner that suits the Ural application. To that end, iKon damping characteristics and a range spring rates are already 'dialed in', and have been for some time for Ural applications.

True, the price for a set of 5 units with 3 position adjustable spring pre-load and 4 position adjustable rebound damping at $1050 (US) do indeed cost more than the OEM units but offer a far higher specification in a re-buildable unit. As far as being priced too high for the Ural market; sales in this niche market prove otherwise.

Reverting back to my original question, does anyone have an idea how long the present dimensions of OEM shock absorber have been in use on Ural outfits? From Rob's observations, we could safely go back to 2000 model year for the US fitment catalog, but I wonder how long that (dimensionally) same shock absorber has been in use?

Excellent forum by the way.

Cheers,
Roger

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Re: iKon Suspension for Urals

Post by Lmo » Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:26 pm

... offer a far higher specification in a re-buildable unit.
that takes some of the edge off the cost to upgrade; Sachs and Hagon are not re-buildable units.
Lew Morris
Dnepr w/ '06 Ural Drive Train
C5 Power Arc
125/42 jets
Drilled slides/
.030" shims

1973 BMW R75/5 (original owner)
1947 HD FL (long gone, forever regretful)

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Re: iKon Suspension for Urals

Post by Lmo » Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:57 pm

Just to add some reference material to this discussion; this old thread dealt with actual weight (empty) distribution measured by load cell.

http://www.sovietsteeds.com/forums/view ... hp?t=45839

The result, provided by Brother Glenn (Speedbump) is shown below

LF = 266 #
LR = 337#
RR (sidecar) = 188#
Image

Perhaps a brief explanation of spring rate vs. load rate would be helpful (to me anyway).
Am I correct in my understanding that 75/120 (below) represents zero deflection at 75# load, and 1" deflection at 120# load?
Image
Lew Morris
Dnepr w/ '06 Ural Drive Train
C5 Power Arc
125/42 jets
Drilled slides/
.030" shims

1973 BMW R75/5 (original owner)
1947 HD FL (long gone, forever regretful)

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