In search of a softer ride

The "Pimp my Ride" section for Soviet bloc bikes. Everybody seems to have their own custom add-ons, modifications & accessories. Share your tips and post pictures of them here.
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PetePeterson
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In search of a softer ride

Post by PetePeterson » Wed Sep 13, 2023 4:14 pm

This is actually a continuation of the Saddle Fix For A Soft Ride I'd posted back in August. Bit the bullet and got me some Horst HCS shocks. Understanding my situation, Horst set these up to be soft.

Delivery took only 15 days. The box arrived a bit beat up
box as rec'd.jpg
but the internal packing was super well done and the hardware was undamaged.

Front and rear shocks went on pretty well. About 90 minutes with the help of my son.
front.jpg
rear.jpg
No adjustments were necessary. I'd purchased a mix of alloy 316 stainless nuts and bolts and even though Horst provided the hardware for the front fork mounting I wound up improvising over the existing hardware for the rear shocks.

Couldn't manage the sidecar though. That lower bolt defeated us.
IMG_5069.JPG
IMG_5068.JPG
The connections were under load even with the wheel off the ground, and it may work out we couldn't extract the bolt. Nor could we slide the top shock connection off either. Going to need a spring compressor. Probably will wind up pulling the wheel and disk brake, cutting off the head of the bolt and reassembling with the bolt head on the outside and the nut inside.

Reassembled the sidecar shock hardware and climbed onto the saddle for a brief test ride. Wow! If I bounce up and down on the saddle the machine is no longer stiff. Taking it down the street and back it now dips a bit in the turns. Don't know how it'' maneuver at speed but I'm pretty sure that the ride has gone from harsh to comfortable.

Will post a follow up once the sidecar problem is resolved.
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2021 Ural CT
Have been riding a succession of bikes since 1969

RC20
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Re: In search of a softer ride

Post by RC20 » Wed Sep 13, 2023 5:30 pm

The side car shock is a bit tricky, I fought it and it turned out there is a simple solution.

There is a rubber piece under the bottom and that is easily removed, it looks like its integrated but it comes out.

I did it the hard way, I managed it with some leverage etc but one of the knowledgeable guys (windmill) showed it is easy. I forget what I did on the lower bolt, there is a thread on it.

You have to read deep into this but I believe that shock replacement on the side car is in there

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=58212&hilit=Side+Car+Shock+Mount
Fear No Gravel
Formerly Owned: ( various rides on others)
Honda 90
2 x CB750K (one a true Japan Model flown to Hawaii by a P3 Orion Sub Patrol Aircraft!)
1 x CB700 SC ala Shaft Drive Nighthawk S (RC20 is the actual Honda Model)
1 x R80GS (ok to start with, learned to love it for what it was)
1 x CB450K

Current:
1 x 2019 cT Terracotta With Fairing/Spare Wheel and HCS CP106 Shocks

What I Did (I quit June 2 , 2019)
Mechanic/Technician/Engineer: Electro Mechanical Systems

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GregoryUSSR
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Re: In search of a softer ride

Post by GregoryUSSR » Thu Sep 14, 2023 4:08 am

PetePeterson wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2023 4:14 pm
Going to need a spring compressor.
Only I wanted to advise you to buy or make this thing yourself:

Image

Image

But you yourself understood what needs to be done.
1991 - ИЖ Планета-5 350сс 22hp
2013 - Honda CBR600F4 600cc 110hp
2014 - Урал ИМЗ 8.103-10 650сс 36hp
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Re: In search of a softer ride

Post by harryball » Fri Sep 15, 2023 3:20 pm

I reached out to Horst based on your previous thread, info tomcatfixer supplied and some details here. I told him the rider weight, asked what spring rate I need to order for a smooth comfortable ride (based on the fact in the previous thread Chad suggested you tell him that information so he can set the springs for you) and ... I kind of got a response that just explains these are better than Sachs shocks. No mention of options like custom spring rate.

So... what did you order? Did Horst just ship the CP106's he sells off the shelf? Or is there a spring rate mentioned, or part number or custom settings or some such?
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RC20
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Re: In search of a softer ride

Post by RC20 » Fri Sep 15, 2023 6:40 pm

There seems to be a wrong assumption here.

The CP106 and I believe the NB (?) have adjustable spring. Ergo, no need to have a custom spring when you can add or remove tension as much as you want. Its a threaded adjustment so its not in steps.

The other two adjustments (compression and rebound, both settable on the CP106) can be adjusted to suit the spring rate

My CPs came with Horst settings he has found to work well and while I have played a bit with them they have gone back to his settings.
Fear No Gravel
Formerly Owned: ( various rides on others)
Honda 90
2 x CB750K (one a true Japan Model flown to Hawaii by a P3 Orion Sub Patrol Aircraft!)
1 x CB700 SC ala Shaft Drive Nighthawk S (RC20 is the actual Honda Model)
1 x R80GS (ok to start with, learned to love it for what it was)
1 x CB450K

Current:
1 x 2019 cT Terracotta With Fairing/Spare Wheel and HCS CP106 Shocks

What I Did (I quit June 2 , 2019)
Mechanic/Technician/Engineer: Electro Mechanical Systems

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Tomcatfixer
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Re: In search of a softer ride

Post by Tomcatfixer » Fri Sep 15, 2023 7:43 pm

The CP106 and I believe the NB (?) have adjustable spring. Ergo, no need to have a custom spring when you can add or remove tension as much as you want. Its a threaded adjustment so its not in steps.
Spring rate and pre-load are two different, but related, suspension concepts. The rate is typically how much weight it takes the compress the coils 1 inch. The rate is selected based upon the load the suspension will be carrying. Pre-load is compressing the springs a bit to set static sag; basically choosing where in the springs' travel and at what load they start compressing. The HCS shocks have pre-load adjusters, but it's also important to choose the appropriate spring rate for the particular application. I'm sure that HCS has selected a spring rate for their Ural shocks that covers the widest use case, but that doesn't mean that this rate is ideal for everyone.
- Chad

Gordonsville, Virginia, USA

Current rides:
2015 cT "Mobile Chernobyl", 2003 Retro Solo, 2001 Patrol "Little Red Bear", 1999 Tourist "The RPOC", 1994 Honda VFR750F

Previous rides:
2007 BMW K1200GT
2007 Honda VTR1000 FireStorm (Super Hawk in U.S.)
2001 Buell Blast! - - - - - - - 2005 Yamaha FJR1300
1993 Honda CBR600F2 - 1984 Yamaha FJ1100
Two 1986 Yamaha FZX700S Fazers
1997 Deco Classic
1998 Tourist "The Heap"

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PetePeterson
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Re: In search of a softer ride

Post by PetePeterson » Sun Sep 17, 2023 2:25 pm

RC20 wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2023 5:30 pm
The side car shock is a bit tricky, I fought it and it turned out there is a simple solution.

There is a rubber piece under the bottom and that is easily removed, it looks like its integrated but it comes out.

I did it the hard way, I managed it with some leverage etc but one of the knowledgeable guys (windmill) showed it is easy. I forget what I did on the lower bolt, there is a thread on it.
Here's the image showing the lack of headspace to remove the lower shock mount bolt on my 2021 cT:
inteference.JPG
And here's the solution:
swingarm lifted.JPG
(Don't know why these images rotated 90° CCW)

I took this sucka as a personal challenge. I'm a mechanical engineer and if someone was clever enough to design this I figured that it disassembled somehow. It took a while to find the solution though. Lifted the sidecar frame. Then lifted the sidecar swingarm. Turns out that the rubber was simply an end-stop bumper for the swingarm. The bolt lifted clear :clap:

It's hard to locate an appropriate spring compressor tool. Harbor Freight's product was way to large. But Amazon sent me this ORX tool that did the trick.
ORX motorcycle spring compressor.JPG
These are amazing shocks. My son Tom is a professional motorcycle drag racer
230917 Tom new shocks s.jpg
and he was really impressed with the quality and the 3-way adjustment capability.
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Last edited by PetePeterson on Sun Sep 17, 2023 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2021 Ural CT
Have been riding a succession of bikes since 1969

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PetePeterson
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Re: In search of a softer ride

Post by PetePeterson » Sun Sep 17, 2023 2:41 pm

ROAD TEST

The CP106 shocks are everything I'd hoped for. What a huge difference in comfort. As expected, the bike handles a bit "looser" but for street use it is fine. Took about 2 curves to adjust to the new handling characteristics.

Did about 20 miles of road test, hitting washboard that previously required getting on the pegs. And was comfortable seated this time around. Handling is stable at highway speeds. The ride is just much plusher.

THANK YOU HORST :cheers:
2021 Ural CT
Have been riding a succession of bikes since 1969

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Tomcatfixer
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Re: In search of a softer ride

Post by Tomcatfixer » Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:31 pm

I'm pleased that you are pleased.
- Chad

Gordonsville, Virginia, USA

Current rides:
2015 cT "Mobile Chernobyl", 2003 Retro Solo, 2001 Patrol "Little Red Bear", 1999 Tourist "The RPOC", 1994 Honda VFR750F

Previous rides:
2007 BMW K1200GT
2007 Honda VTR1000 FireStorm (Super Hawk in U.S.)
2001 Buell Blast! - - - - - - - 2005 Yamaha FJR1300
1993 Honda CBR600F2 - 1984 Yamaha FJ1100
Two 1986 Yamaha FZX700S Fazers
1997 Deco Classic
1998 Tourist "The Heap"

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Re: In search of a softer ride

Post by RC20 » Sun Sep 17, 2023 7:06 pm

Sweet.

With a jack up and a bit of finese the shocks will come off without a spring compressor.

Windmill made it clear that rubbber thingy comes out but too late for me. I was looking at the monkey motion of the side car suspension all wrong.
Fear No Gravel
Formerly Owned: ( various rides on others)
Honda 90
2 x CB750K (one a true Japan Model flown to Hawaii by a P3 Orion Sub Patrol Aircraft!)
1 x CB700 SC ala Shaft Drive Nighthawk S (RC20 is the actual Honda Model)
1 x R80GS (ok to start with, learned to love it for what it was)
1 x CB450K

Current:
1 x 2019 cT Terracotta With Fairing/Spare Wheel and HCS CP106 Shocks

What I Did (I quit June 2 , 2019)
Mechanic/Technician/Engineer: Electro Mechanical Systems

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PetePeterson
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Re: In search of a softer ride

Post by PetePeterson » Sun Sep 17, 2023 8:12 pm

RC20 wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2023 7:06 pm
Sweet.

With a jack up and a bit of finese the shocks will come off without a spring compressor.

Windmill made it clear that rubbber thingy comes out but too late for me. I was looking at the monkey motion of the side car suspension all wrong.
Much easier with a helper. As you noted, just a jack and a bit of finesse for the 4 on the bike. With my cT configuration the spring compressor was necessary on the hack.
2021 Ural CT
Have been riding a succession of bikes since 1969

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Tomcatfixer
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Re: In search of a softer ride

Post by Tomcatfixer » Sun Sep 17, 2023 8:24 pm

With my cT configuration the spring compressor was necessary on the hack.
Very curious, as this was not necessary for the Sachs-to-HCS shock swap on my 2015 cT.
- Chad

Gordonsville, Virginia, USA

Current rides:
2015 cT "Mobile Chernobyl", 2003 Retro Solo, 2001 Patrol "Little Red Bear", 1999 Tourist "The RPOC", 1994 Honda VFR750F

Previous rides:
2007 BMW K1200GT
2007 Honda VTR1000 FireStorm (Super Hawk in U.S.)
2001 Buell Blast! - - - - - - - 2005 Yamaha FJR1300
1993 Honda CBR600F2 - 1984 Yamaha FJ1100
Two 1986 Yamaha FZX700S Fazers
1997 Deco Classic
1998 Tourist "The Heap"

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PetePeterson
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Re: In search of a softer ride

Post by PetePeterson » Mon Sep 18, 2023 8:34 am

Tomcatfixer wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2023 8:24 pm
With my cT configuration the spring compressor was necessary on the hack.
Very curious, as this was not necessary for the Sachs-to-HCS shock swap on my 2015 cT.
Maybe there's a difference between the 2015 and 2021 cT setup????

While I forced the top end of the old sidecar shock off of the pin while the lower end was still attached it was not possible to put the upper end of the new Horst shock onto the pin when the bolt was in place and the swing arm lowered.

When installing the upgrade sock, it was necessary to place the upper end onto the pin before working the lower end. With the swing arm down the bolt couldn't be inserted. With the swing arm raised the shock had to be compressed before the bolt could be inserted. With the CP106, when the spring is compressed just 1/2 inch or so the spring becomes loose and it's possible to remove the holding plate at the bottom of the spring. And this allows the piston to be compressed enough for the bolt to align/insert. Then the swingarm was lowered, the spring retention plate was put back onto the shock, and the spring compression backed off.

For safety and simplicity, I compressed the spring on a workbench and installed it with the compressors in place.
2021 Ural CT
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Re: In search of a softer ride

Post by RC20 » Fri Oct 20, 2023 7:17 pm

I wrote my issues up I think in the HCS shock thread.

Mine is a 2019 cT and if I had known what Windmill told me, it would have been no issue

As it was, I jacked mine up and applied some leverage and got the clearance needed without a spring compressor.
Fear No Gravel
Formerly Owned: ( various rides on others)
Honda 90
2 x CB750K (one a true Japan Model flown to Hawaii by a P3 Orion Sub Patrol Aircraft!)
1 x CB700 SC ala Shaft Drive Nighthawk S (RC20 is the actual Honda Model)
1 x R80GS (ok to start with, learned to love it for what it was)
1 x CB450K

Current:
1 x 2019 cT Terracotta With Fairing/Spare Wheel and HCS CP106 Shocks

What I Did (I quit June 2 , 2019)
Mechanic/Technician/Engineer: Electro Mechanical Systems

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