Battery Issue!

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Wildhorse Cafe
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
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Posts: 1964
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Location: King City, California

Re: Battery Issue!

Post by Wildhorse Cafe » Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:12 am

99.99% of the time it's the battery. In 54 yrs of owning vehicles I have only had one alternator go bad and I have had to replace many batteries. My alternator lamp worked as advertised, and lit up like a Vegas slot machine, on that one occasion. Of course make sure your wiring is tight.
2011 Patrol, The Higgs Bison Super Collider, formally known as, the Orange and Silver Pumpkin Coach.

2013 Black Retro, Chernaya Krasota, formally known as, my name is nobody.

When you set out on your journey to Ithaca
pray the road is long , full of adventure, full of knowledge
not expecting that Ithaca will offer you riches
Ithaca has given you the beautiful voyage

C.P. Cavafy

RC20
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Re: Battery Issue!

Post by RC20 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:48 am

Simple to sort out with the meter or the display so why not do it?

You sure look dumb when you replace a battery and that does not fix it, then you replace the alternator and that does not fix it and then you find it has a separate regulator.

I would put it more like 15% Alternator or the regulator (some had separate but the circuit inside could fail as well)

I have had one the light did not work and it passed the test. In that case the diodes that fed the file were bad. You could spin it and put voltage into the Alternator and it was fine but would not work.

One I had to figure out the adjustment which it fortunately relay had (try to get a part in Puerto Rico sometime!) - and we lost the battery cause on a long drive it got cooked to death by over voltage. Yea I could have just replaced the battery but it was not the right thing to do cause in a couple years it was another battery (assuming it did not make a long trip) .

The last managers for the company I worked for MO was to start replacing parts and then the whole machine when he could not get it to work.

If you don't mind throwing money away its one approach, it will cost you and people look at you out the side of their eyes.
Fear No Gravel
Formerly Owned: ( various rides on others)
Honda 90
2 x CB750K (one a true Japan Model flown to Hawaii by a P3 Orion Sub Patrol Aircraft!)
1 x CB700 SC ala Shaft Drive Nighthawk S (RC20 is the actual in house production Model)
1 x R80GS (ok to start with, learned to love it for what it was)
1 x CB450K

Current:
1 x 2019 cT Terracotta

What I Did (I quit June 2 , 2019)
Mechanic/Technician/Engineer: Electro Mechanical Systems

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Ducati Pilot
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Location: Southern Vermont

Re: Battery Issue!

Post by Ducati Pilot » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:56 am

INSUBORDINATOR wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:55 pm
Ever notice that IF a battery is getting old - IT DIES DURING A FULL MOON ?
:roll: It’s obvious your battery failures were caused by not throwing clams at it. (The moon, not the battery...)
Southern Vermont.
Current rides:
2006 Ducati S2R1000 “hot rod” build
1980 Yamaha SR250 Scrambler build
1979 Kawasaki KZ750 B-Twin “War Pig”
I will own a Ural, hopefully sooner than later.
I’m loving this forum!

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INSUBORDINATOR
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Re: Battery Issue!

Post by INSUBORDINATOR » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:36 am

Ducati Pilot wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:56 am
INSUBORDINATOR wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:55 pm
Ever notice that IF a battery is getting old - IT DIES DURING A FULL MOON ?
:roll: It’s obvious your battery failures were caused by not throwing clams at it. (The moon, not the battery...)
I was serious - scientists have noted this, & accept as fact, that the full moon can cause tired batteries to expire.

How do know throwing clams helps ??? have you documented your efforts ???
Current Motorcycles: Improved 2002 Ural Tourist.

"Be who you are & say what you feel. Those that matter won't mind, those that mind - don't matter."

RC20
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
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Location: Anchorage AK

Re: Battery Issue!

Post by RC20 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:50 pm

Ducati Pilot appears to be of the same take I am, voodoo does not have anything to do with physics.

You can list your sources, but batteries are nothing more than acid and water mix working with plate materials that generate voltage.

So yea, totally skeptical that tidal action on a itty bitty teeny body of fluid has any affect (does full moon have anything to do with tides?)
Fear No Gravel
Formerly Owned: ( various rides on others)
Honda 90
2 x CB750K (one a true Japan Model flown to Hawaii by a P3 Orion Sub Patrol Aircraft!)
1 x CB700 SC ala Shaft Drive Nighthawk S (RC20 is the actual in house production Model)
1 x R80GS (ok to start with, learned to love it for what it was)
1 x CB450K

Current:
1 x 2019 cT Terracotta

What I Did (I quit June 2 , 2019)
Mechanic/Technician/Engineer: Electro Mechanical Systems

User avatar
Ducati Pilot
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Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:30 pm
Location: Southern Vermont

Re: Battery Issue!

Post by Ducati Pilot » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:58 pm

[/quote]
How do know throwing clams helps ??? have you documented your efforts ???
[/quote]

My efforts have not yet been documented. However, a large group of pagans gather annually at the summer solstice on Putney Mountain, about three miles from my house, in order to throw clams at the moon. Apparently they are muddy, naked and utterly infused with some sort of crazy energy that further results in other things being thrown at clams...
I’ve yet to be invited (what with not being a pagan and all) but it certainly sounds like a party from what I’ve heard. No reports at all though on the effects of clam throwing, or full moons, on any electrical appliances. I’ll keep my ear to the rail, though.
Gotta love Vermont...
Southern Vermont.
Current rides:
2006 Ducati S2R1000 “hot rod” build
1980 Yamaha SR250 Scrambler build
1979 Kawasaki KZ750 B-Twin “War Pig”
I will own a Ural, hopefully sooner than later.
I’m loving this forum!

User avatar
Wildhorse Cafe
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Posts: 1964
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:28 pm
Location: King City, California

Re: Battery Issue!

Post by Wildhorse Cafe » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:42 am

Bad battery, bad clams.
2011 Patrol, The Higgs Bison Super Collider, formally known as, the Orange and Silver Pumpkin Coach.

2013 Black Retro, Chernaya Krasota, formally known as, my name is nobody.

When you set out on your journey to Ithaca
pray the road is long , full of adventure, full of knowledge
not expecting that Ithaca will offer you riches
Ithaca has given you the beautiful voyage

C.P. Cavafy

User avatar
Wildhorse Cafe
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Posts: 1964
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:28 pm
Location: King City, California

Re: Battery Issue!

Post by Wildhorse Cafe » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:42 am

Bad battery, bad clams.
2011 Patrol, The Higgs Bison Super Collider, formally known as, the Orange and Silver Pumpkin Coach.

2013 Black Retro, Chernaya Krasota, formally known as, my name is nobody.

When you set out on your journey to Ithaca
pray the road is long , full of adventure, full of knowledge
not expecting that Ithaca will offer you riches
Ithaca has given you the beautiful voyage

C.P. Cavafy

jmgcavtrpr
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Re: Battery Issue!

Post by jmgcavtrpr » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:44 am

I'm monitoring my voltage and it seems to be holding steady. I plan on a lengthy ride this weekend if the weather (and my family) are agreeable. I did purchase a battery charger and hooked up the pigtails to the posts (the negative one was a beyotch to unhook). Charged the battery up fully and have switched it over to the trickle charger until I ride it. Thanks for all the critiques including the Moon voodoo lol!
2017 Gear Up

RC20
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
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Re: Battery Issue!

Post by RC20 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:56 pm

While I prefer current meters, Voltage is equally good, it just needs to be interpreted a bit.

Basically a battery requires 14.5 volts to achiever a near zero current flow into the battery. Ideally 13 is better for long charges but its a balance between a fairly quick start recovery (recharge )

If your alternator and or its regulator are not working right, you can wreck a battery, ergo, the 14.5 tells you its workign right. The core issue if its not 14.5 is the alternator/regulator not the battery though the battery may be done in by that and have to be replaced.

It does take RPM to get full voltage, 1500 roughly but 2000 is needed if you are charging up a battery that just started the machine. at 900 it will be limping along 11.5 or so. One reason a 1000 rpm idle is specified (mine runs 900 so need to see about getting it up - I do see the battery light come on 11.4 volts)

Some newer charges are nice with both voltage and current showed.

If you watch your volt meter, initially you will see it at about 13, 6-10 amps will be going into the battery (short spike to higher depending on the charger). Then it levels off.

To do an equalize (stir up the chemistry, break up sulphation ) 14.5 volts for 12-24 hours would be the norm.

If you hit 14.5 volt in a few minutes the battery has been topped up. It will continue a low current charge, but its been restored almost completely.

The major key to assessing if you have healthy battery is just turning the Ural on and not starting. You should see about 12.5 volts and it should hold there.

A lead acid is 2 volt per cell nominal and it takes 13.5-14.5 to stuff enough current into one to allow it to be 12.5 with no charging going on. That surplus is restoring the battery from its start.

The Ural has a very high powered alternator relative to other cycles of the past and it really does not have a load like a car with all the bells and whistles (autos are headed for 48 volt systems in the near future if they are not yet a Hybrid). So ALL the current goes to the battery (yes a few amps go to FI, the Ignition and the pump but its not that much, none of those are heavy current user like a Window defroster or a fan would be) .

The other key is a load test. Starting is a form of a load test though they have resister grid units that you can monitor and assess how its doing better, but for a fast check, watch your voltage drop on starting, it should go no lower than 10.5 volts.

Mine is a case in point that the battery is weak (it sat too long after it was filled before charging or the electrolyte mix is weak). Despite that (11.7 after a couple of days) it still start the Ural.

I don't know about now but Honda would not fill a battery, they sent the fill with the battery and you filled it when you got it home, then charged it. Avoids that sulphation that occurs that weakens a battery. Once it locks solid to a plate you can't break it loose.

Interstate fills their batteries just before delivery.

The other on cycle test you can do is just turn it on and let it sit. Watch the voltage. It should take a long time to drop to 11.5. Fast drop and the battery is in poor condition or gone. It should take 30 minutes to drop that low.
Fear No Gravel
Formerly Owned: ( various rides on others)
Honda 90
2 x CB750K (one a true Japan Model flown to Hawaii by a P3 Orion Sub Patrol Aircraft!)
1 x CB700 SC ala Shaft Drive Nighthawk S (RC20 is the actual in house production Model)
1 x R80GS (ok to start with, learned to love it for what it was)
1 x CB450K

Current:
1 x 2019 cT Terracotta

What I Did (I quit June 2 , 2019)
Mechanic/Technician/Engineer: Electro Mechanical Systems

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