I Bought An RPOC Today

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Snakeoil
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Re: I Bought An RPOC Today

Post by Snakeoil » Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:36 pm

I plan to upgrade to Denso.
Never mind.
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Rob
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Eric N
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Re: I Bought An RPOC Today

Post by Eric N » Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:41 pm

Tomcatfixer wrote:So, 650 owners, tell me what I need to do to this sucker! I'm thinkin' replace the Russian Grenade Alternator and upgrade the ignition. I'd like to ditch the friction damper and replace it with Sean's R3W hydraulic damper. Guess I gotta make me a Me-Pi drum brake adjusting tool now. The parking brake is missing. Is it worth replacing? Is the airbox on this bike any good or is there a better design out there? Give me your highly opinionated, borderline offensive, highly entertaining, marginally effective advice!
Some thoughts:

Year 2000 service manual: http://www.sidecarafrica.co.za/Repair%20Manual.pdf

Me-Pi and replace the front brake cable with the Triumph clutch cable. Stopping is a nice feature your bike probably lacks.

I use the parking brake all the time, but I also tend to kickstart mine. 650's like being kickstarted.

Airbox is fine. Carbs should be fine.

I've heard horror stories about the grenade, prior owner of mine installed a Denso but they are pricey and it's possible the grenade will last.

Is ignition Type II? Type III is pretty good, but when mine fried I couldn't figure out a way to diagnose, so I replaced with a C5.

I've not had an issue with the friction damper so dunno the advantage of the R3W.

Crawford and Holopaw tend to have 650 parts. Russian Garage is mainly 650 parts but they don't specify which generation and things often need modification. The Russian Garage gaskets and rubber has all been very good. eBay tends to be good for parts and if you can't find the Ural version many Dnepr things will fit. Russian built is better than new Chinese versions. If the eBay or Russian Garage part shows up on aliexpress.com, walk away from it.
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Tomcatfixer
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Re: I Bought An RPOC Today

Post by Tomcatfixer » Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:50 pm

Great tips, Eric. MUCH thanks for the service manual link. Questions:
Triumph clutch cable.
Never heard of this mod. I'm intrigued. Probably worth a forum search, eh?
I use the parking brake all the time,
Then I shall restore mine to it's former glory!
prior owner of mine installed a Denso but they are pricey and it's possible the grenade will last
Perhaps we'll see what kind of power output the Russian alternator has before I immediately spring for a Nippon-Denso.
Is ignition Type II?
Don't know yet. Just bought the bike today and it's still on the trailer in my driveway. I intend to install whatever the most current ignition system is. Perhaps a PowerArc. I dunno.
I've not had an issue with the friction damper so dunno the advantage of the R3W.
I've ridden both friction and hydraulically damped bikes, and I prefer the hydraulic damper.

All good stuff. Thanks again!
- Chad

Gordonsville, Virginia, USA

Current rides:
2015 Ural cT "Mobile Chernobyl", 2001 Ural Patrol "Little Red Bear", 1999 Ural Tourist "The RPOC", 1994 Honda VFR750F

Previous rides:
2007 Honda VTR1000 FireStorm (Super Hawk in U.S.)
2001 Buell Blast! - - - - - - - 2005 Yamaha FJR1300
1993 Honda CBR600F2 - -1984 Yamaha FJ1100
Two different 1986 Yamaha FZX700S Fazers

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Emoore
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Re: I Bought An RPOC Today

Post by Emoore » Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:54 pm

Im going over a project of a 03, I have named Medusa. Shes not as....rusty as yours but has given me quite a lesson in patience. If you need some help once I get Medusa on the road ide be glad to help some weekend.

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Ernest
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Re: I Bought An RPOC Today

Post by rougaroo » Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:54 pm

Or maybe build a pickup bed instead of the tub? The 650 isn't for long trips, but it'd be great around town to the hardware store, farmer's market, etc, etc.

Don't think I saw it, but how many km's on this beast?

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Tomcatfixer
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Re: I Bought An RPOC Today

Post by Tomcatfixer » Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:57 pm

If you need some help once I get Medusa on the road ide be glad to help some weekend.
I might just take you up on that, Ernest. You up for a three hour ride to Virginia Beach?! :D
Or maybe build a pickup bed instead of the tub?
I thought about that, Bob. Van's got one like that. It'd be significantly easier than repairing my corroded hack.

EDIT:
Don't think I saw it, but how many km's on this beast?
A little over 14,000. In eighteen years. I've put 21,000 on the Mobile Chernobyl in eighteen MONTHS!

SPEAKING of the Mobile Chernobyl, the new rig is gonna need a nickname. I can't keep calling it RPOC (well, I guess I COULD, but there's gotta be something more clever).

Maybe something like "Urban Decay", but with a Russian twist. "Corroded Cossack"? "RUSTssian"? We'll think of something, you all and I.
- Chad

Gordonsville, Virginia, USA

Current rides:
2015 Ural cT "Mobile Chernobyl", 2001 Ural Patrol "Little Red Bear", 1999 Ural Tourist "The RPOC", 1994 Honda VFR750F

Previous rides:
2007 Honda VTR1000 FireStorm (Super Hawk in U.S.)
2001 Buell Blast! - - - - - - - 2005 Yamaha FJR1300
1993 Honda CBR600F2 - -1984 Yamaha FJ1100
Two different 1986 Yamaha FZX700S Fazers

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Eric N
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Re: I Bought An RPOC Today

Post by Eric N » Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:04 am

Triumph Clutch into Brake Cable - http://www.sovietsteeds.com/forums/view ... hp?t=18277

In a nutshell, the Ural brake cable is stretchy the thicker Triumph cable is solid. Part is T2047048 and will run about $45. I also used an 8mm coupling nut to connect the triumph cable to the stock adjuster on the drum. Turns sketchy brakes into very solid brakes.

C5 ignition is Powerarc. The bushings that came with mine were the wrong size, had to trim to fit, but otherwise bolts right in.
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Emoore
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Re: I Bought An RPOC Today

Post by Emoore » Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:41 am

I might just take you up on that, Ernest. You up for a three hour ride to Virginia Beach?! [emoji1]

Sure, I used to live in Norfolk, and worked in Williamsburg, once I get my rigs right i would be glad to pack up the tools and head North.

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Ernest
2012 Ural T Olive (Roulette)
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chaos2
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Re: I Bought An RPOC Today

Post by chaos2 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:00 am

Tomcatfixer wrote:
Here's the plan: get it running tomorrow.


OK, it's tomorrow now, got it running yet???????? :lol:
Past afflictions include limey motocars and bikes, R60/2, R65ls, & a Citroen.
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Re: RE: Re: I Bought An RPOC Today

Post by Emoore » Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:33 am

chaos2 wrote:
Tomcatfixer wrote:
Here's the plan: get it running tomorrow.


OK, it's tomorrow now, got it running yet???????? [emoji38]
In my experience, "running" has a different meaning to different people......but I too would like to kmow as well.

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Ernest
2012 Ural T Olive (Roulette)
2011 Patrol (OTTO)
Yamaha FZ07 ( My need for speed )

Wake Forest, NC

John Wayne - Life's Hard. It's Even Harder When You're Stupid.

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Tomcatfixer
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Re: I Bought An RPOC Today

Post by Tomcatfixer » Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:30 am

OK, it's tomorrow now, got it running yet?
Naw, I traded RPOC-working-time for new Ural rider meeting time. I think it was a good choice. In fact, I'm STILL here shooting the proverbial doo-doo about Ural's.
2017-04-02 11.27.20.jpg
EDIT - Corrected autocorrect and used the word 'doo-doo'.
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Last edited by Tomcatfixer on Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Chad

Gordonsville, Virginia, USA

Current rides:
2015 Ural cT "Mobile Chernobyl", 2001 Ural Patrol "Little Red Bear", 1999 Ural Tourist "The RPOC", 1994 Honda VFR750F

Previous rides:
2007 Honda VTR1000 FireStorm (Super Hawk in U.S.)
2001 Buell Blast! - - - - - - - 2005 Yamaha FJR1300
1993 Honda CBR600F2 - -1984 Yamaha FJ1100
Two different 1986 Yamaha FZX700S Fazers

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Re: I Bought An RPOC Today

Post by Snakeoil » Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:46 am

Well, after a good night's rest, I see that our discussion last night was not a bad dream.

I've read all the comments and can offer up my thoughts.
the new rig is gonna need a nickname. I can't keep calling it RPOC (well, I guess I COULD, but there's gotta be something more clever).
I'm thinking "Rusty". Never a better sidekick name has their been.

Grenade Alternator.
Pull the alternator, and check the drive gear, key, nut and cotter pin. spin the shaft slowly and feel the bearings. If okay, I'd run it for now. Plenty of guys here have run grenades with no issues. I tend to think that most of the failures involved the gear coming loose. They do fail that is for sure. I've seen the weld scars on an early 750 from such a failure. Pretty much took the top of the gear tower off.

Jugs
Rust lead me to believe this rig lived outdoors. Do a compression test. Remove the plugs and peer into the jugs. Look for rust or pitting in the bottom of the cylinder.

Crank
Rotate the engine and look for runout in the flywheel thru the starter port. It should run dead true. When you have the front cover off the timing chest, repeat the process on the nose of the crank. Again, should be no runout.

EI
The rotor is held to the shaft with an eared washer with a keyed hole. The keyed hole is in the form of two flats on each side. The shaft has mating flats that drive the washer. The two diametrically opposed ears fit into slots in the rotor and that is what drives the rotor. A nut on the end of the shaft keeps the rotor in place via compression. The fit of the ears to the slots is sloppy at best. The keyed hole in mine had deformed due to compression being lost. I estimated that I had 5 to 10 degrees of slop when my engine was running. It ran, but not the best. The shaft is threaded with a shoulder so you can only make the nut so tight. In my case, I needed a 1/32" thick washer behind the rotor and it snugged up fine. With a ball peen hammer, I repaired the keyed hole in the washer for a snug fit on the mating shaft. When you mount the rotor twist it against the direction of rotation as this is the way it will want to go. Have it hard against the ears of the washer. Then, with blue Loctite on the nut and the washer behind it (if you need it) snug it up. I did mine two years ago and it has not moved since. Yours may be okay. But I thought I'd give you the fix in case it is not. Otherwise, the ignition works just fine. My coils are not mounted under the timing cover so they may be replacement coils. I've heard coil failure was common.

Riding
Someone said these are not good for long distance riding. Not sure what long distance is, but I have had mine out for the day, with round trips will over 100 miles with no issues. And that included the first year of about 1000 miles of riding before the bent crank finally killed the front main bearing. I have cruised at 55 mph indicated, but she is probably happier at 45 mph. The Russian gears are very noisy. Diagnosing the bad main was very difficult, driven partly by running without the alt removed load and the bearing quieted down. It was my primary driver for going with a Denso.

Denso
Shop the Denso. If you find a used one with the older adapter without the front seal, I have a mod thread here showing how to modify it to include a front seal. While you are in there, I suggest you consider Herzog gears. Not expensive compared to the Denso and really quiets things down and smooths things out. Engine case number will ID the right Herzog set. Hardest part of Herzog retrofit is removing and installing the cam gear. You will need a press and a proper way to support the cam. I actually broke the OEM gear because I never expected the amount of force required to remove it.

Brake cable
I still have all the OEM cables on my rig. It stops fine for what it is. Surprised to hear that the Russian cable stretches. Need to take a closer look at that.

Alignment
Sidecar alignment on these is a challenge. There is no adjustable lower front mount. It is fixed. So, getting the chassis level can involve major force. Unless the variation between cars and bike frames lines up nicely, these are not the kind of rig that you can remove the hack and put it back on and all is well. So, forewarned is forearmed. Took me 8 hours to align the rig on my first try. It will fight you.

Carbs
If the diaphragms are good and the fuel screws for idle are not seized the carbs should be good and are very good performing carbs for this kind of application. You might want to test the diaphragms with compressed air rather than pull the tops off the carbs. Gene told me that he has seen the diaphragms swell from E10 fuel and they are impossible to reinstall. That was not my experience on mine. But thought I'd mention it anyway. New ones, unless you find a deal on the web, ain't cheap. I remember looking and did find some deals on the web. But if the slide goes up and down with some air, they should be fine. You won't have to go in unless you need to change the needle position. I'd worry about that after I got the engine running.

I see it already has the newer petcock with adapter.

General
Don't trust the manual for things like head torque. Question those things when you need to. A bolt is a bolt with bolt grade being the variable. When in doubt, use standard torque specs for the size fastener being tightened and take things like Loctite or grease into account. I know you know this stuff based on your background.

I did a thread on my engine rebuild. You might find it helpful. I want to say it is titled "Diggin into my 650". If you can't find it, let me know and I'll find it for you.

With my engine rebuilt, with a Denso, new jugs, Herzog gears, all new bearings and a straight NOS crank, it runs like an electric motor. It's great little engine. Starts better than any other bike I own, including a late model FI Harley.

My coffin idea for the hack is not an original one. It's been done before by others with other kinds of rigs. If you gut it, it can be a good utilitarian type of box. Need a modern metal coffin. But I suppose if you are a decent carpenter, you could make a wooden one and fiberglass it to protect it from the elements. A small bed off a Gator might fit and be practical too, especially if you can manage to maintain the dump feature. Garden tractors have small trailers whose box may be a better fit. Gator box is probably too wide when I think about it. But you get the idea.

Fasteners
Ivan is very generous with fastener tolerances. I have found two bolts with the same thread size, used in similar locations with different head sizes. So, don't be surprised if you find you need a 12mm wrench for one bolt and a 13mm for the mating bolt. This could continue on modern rigs. I only am familiar with my 2000 Tourist's personality traits.

Controls
Switches work fine. Handlebars are a sizing abortion. I would leave them as is until you have it all sorted out and decide it is a keeper. The bars are not 1 inch in the main section and are not 7/8" in the grip section. I suspect they were designed in the 60's under the heavy influence of psychedelic drugs.

That's all that comes to mind for now.
Regards,
Rob
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40 Pilots, 122 Mains
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hotflash44
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Re: I Bought An RPOC Today

Post by hotflash44 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:18 pm

the other day you said the guy wanted $1200,hope you chiseled him down some ! let us know when or if you fire it up, boy would that be a plus . did the po ever hear it run?
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Re: RE: Re: I Bought An RPOC Today

Post by Emoore » Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:37 pm

hotflash44 wrote:the other day you said the guy wanted $1200,hope you chiseled him down some ! let us know when or if you fire it up, boy would that be a plus . did the po ever hear it run?
I beleive the ad posted said he ran it up and down the street. That could mean he pushed it or rode it. [emoji12]

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Ernest
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Wake Forest, NC

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Re: I Bought An RPOC Today

Post by cheeseheadmike » Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:14 pm

Tomcatfixer wrote: my wife kept "egging me on" to buy it, so I did.
Where the hell did I go wrong?
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