Starting with a Dead Battery?

[driftingfocus]

Ok, so my BF and I have figured that perhaps the reason we are having a hard time getting the bike to start is because of the battery.  The lights have been very dim, the blinkers have taken a long time to respond, etc.  We CAN get the bike started, but as someone much cleverer than I once said, kickstarting an Ural with a bad battery is like being a fat kid on a stairmaster: hard and tedious.
 
So here's the question: could the problem be with the alternator?  The reason I ask is that when we were riding the bike last night after getting it started, the blinkers stopped working entirely and the headlamp more or less died.  Now, if the bike was running properly, the alternator should have kept the juice flowing enough that the blinkers and headlamp would have had at least a modicum of power to function, right?
 
Or is it possible that the alternator is fine and the battery is just crap?
 
In any case, we are going to get the battery charged Friday and try it in the bike then.  If the lights go dim quickly, then I guess it's the alternator (or alternatively, just a shitty battery that won't charge).  If not, then the battery was just dead and needed a boost.
 
Thoughts?  Anyone have any advice?  Might a dead or dying battery explain our hard starts?
 
Thanks!

[Bilgekeeldave]

With the charged battery in the bike, start the engine and put a voltmeter on the battery posts, you should have about 13 to 14 volts, if the alternator is good.

You should see the alternator light when you turn on the key. The light will dim or go out completely with the engine running. If the alternator is not working, the alternator light will be lit with the engine running.

If your alternator is not charging the battery and you don't see the light, maybe the lamp is burned out.
Dave

[greenmachine]

If the battery on that " old " rig was pretty much flat.... and you have a GENERATOR or 14A alternator.... and have just putzed around at low revs in town.... then you may not have put hardly any charge at all into the battery in any case. Those units often show a low-charge lamp most of the time in town. I think they don't charge much below 2000 rpm if at all.

Good idea to simply clean the terminals on the charging leads and ground first. Then check with a meter to determine the output from the alternator to see what the output voltage is. I would want to see output higher than 13.6V or so and not more than about 14.2 at high revs. You'll also see what revs it takes to get a decent output voltage on your system.

I would replace the battery if it is the original just because it needs it almost undoubtedly. I've had good luck with the OEM style Interstate battery, only changed it once in a decade and just fer grins.... Use the 20A battery and not the 18A option....

The charging leads between the alternator and the battery and the battery and ground were both often marginal on those model rigs. The leads could go a couple sizes larger and the crimps are often poor at best. Check em out. Just cuz ya don't get juice don't mean the output unit nor the storage unit are bad but rather the connections just need to be better sometimes. A poor engine ground both at the battery and at the top motor mount under the tank can cause goofy stuff to happen.

Be happy you have a nice kick-only gearbox with a proper air choke. They work very nicely. Don't be concerned if ya get the " dreaded squeal of death" from that model gearbox. A squirt of oil into the vent to lubricate the front top bearing will make it all better....

It only takes about 8V or so to run one of these engine's ignition systems. A poor ground at a type 1 under-seat ignition will require more volts to get the stupid thing to fire...

I could go on....

Git ya a meter and use it.
Take a little time and go over the electrical connections. ALL of them. Clean and grease them. It will pay off in the long run. Tighten the spades and pins in the plug-in connections. Use some grease.
Include the coil/ plug wire/ boot connections....

If the plug wires or boots look funky, toss em and replace with readily available wires and boots.

Flush the fuel tank and clean the petcock screen inside after removing and cleaning the petcock. Replace the fuel lines with new proper fuel lines or face the hassle of crud in yer carbs and poor fuel flow.

When ya get to it ya need to go over your valves and check yer head studs. Do NOT use the torque in the manual on those studs or you'll be fixing stuff.... I suggest using only about 20 ft lbs or two-finger-tight. No more.
You can spiff up them jugs with a gun cleaning brush to get rid of the rust then spritz em with BBQ paint lightly a couple coats. Works fine.

Good luck with yer "new" rig. It will be an adventure.
All will be well....

Have FUN and ride SAFE!

kermitski

[cubituscubitus]

Howdy,
you might want to check the voltage regulator too, it's a black square box located under the seat. Check all connectors also.

[Johann]

As others have said, check all electrical contacts. On my Tourist I have had the same problems you describe, weak headlight, slow or no flash on turn signals, refusal to start. I am still going through every inch of wiring, I started at the rear of the bike and now I've made my way into the headlight bucket where there are lots of shorts. I cleaned all grounds and contacts with a wire brush, cleaned the insides of the relay connectors with an electrical cleaner spray, then lubed all contacts with dialectric grease. It's made a big difference, all my lights are brighter and the signals flash strong and bright now. It still refuses to start once in awhile but I've found the faulty wire and I will replace it this weekend. It's the wiring that goes into the headlight bucket, it gets worn out from the handlebars being turned side to side. I could not find it because even though the insulation is intact the wire inside was broken. Before I did anything I replaced the old battery and made sure it was hooked up tight and the contacts were clean. Once I had it running I made sure it was charging and that eliminated 2 possible problems. Then it was look for shorts, and I'm still chasing them around but in the process I'm really getting to know my bike very well and that's the idea.

[Scott]

Thoughts? Anyone have any advice? Might a dead or dying battery explain our hard starts?

Yes!
Absolutely yes!
It can even make the bike accelerate like crap when the electronic ignition starts skipping beats.

[driftingfocus]

Thoughts? Anyone have any advice? Might a dead or dying battery explain our hard starts?

Yes!
Absolutely yes!
It can even make the bike accelerate like crap when the electronic ignition starts skipping beats.

Ours has no electronic ignition. It's kick-only.

And yeah, our battery was most decidedly dead.

[greenmachine]

I think the standard ignition on a CMSI model in '95 would actually be a type 1 electronic ignition. There is an interrupter and pickup under the front cover along with the coil, and a crude module under the seat pan.

The rig may in fact have points but it would have been done aftermarket.

The type one isn't the greatest ignition system in the world but will function, assuming the GROUNDS which are the base mounts are solid....
If that unit goes bad, few folks would fix it. Many were replaced with a type 3 electronic unit which was a bit nicer unit and cleaned up the harness a bit. The type 3 can be very good and reliable but they don't like the coil inside the front cover, similar to a type 4 pancake module. The heat thing says put the coil under the tank ....
The early rigs very often have a type 3 or later unit cuz the type 1 didn't have the greatest advance curve in the world and the modules could go goofy along with the extended harness and connections. The type 3 is still available if needed from the motherland or Ukraine.... and I understand that Crawfords does have some in stock along with the D-washers for the rotor. If I had a type 3 I would get my hands on the D-washer as a spare cuz once they wallow out the ignition will act up and them things are scarce these days. The type 3 also has two pickup steel slugs which have been known to try to escape from their positions but can easily be secured with a dab of epoxy glue. I ran a type 3 for a very long time and it always functioned just fine for me.

The plastic front cover on some engines was mostly to reduce arcing issues from the harness and coil grounding tabs. I don't think it would do anything to reduce the heat inside the cover, unless it had some ventilation... It's not like ya can't run with the coil inside the cover, it's just that the heat from both the module AND the coil don't do anything good over time for either item.... JMHO

kermitski

[btswanfury]

All,

Turns out it was the battery. Now we got a new, dry cell battery and she fires right up every time (well...within 1-30 kicks). Thanks for all your advice!