oops, 4000miles oil change!! metal pieces.

Are ya having a problem with your rig? We'll try to help. Share your tech tips and experiences here. Dr. Billy Glaser, author of the "Unofficial 750 Ural Service Manual" site myural.com, is moderating this section.
Forum rules
Here is the place for you to ask questions about or share your experiences about servicing or repairing your Ural or Dnepr. Please post topics concering modifications or accesories in the "Modifications and Acessories" section. Please post oil related questions in the "Oil Threads" section.
User avatar
scip77
Party Member
Party Member
Posts: 100
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:50 pm

Re: oops, 4000miles oil change!! metal pieces.

Postby scip77 » Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:37 pm

Albuquralque wrote:How close is the dealer to you to use the "dealer tool" to check your balance?


6km from dealer, but have to await shanghai dealer mail the laptop to share. Beijing distributor without dealer tool.
2015 early Gear up
Or map 1.02 off road
Bellof dba2012 led.
Hella ff50 (disconneted!)
Raceway 2in1 high mount right side, 2 brothers muffler
EJK(disconnected)
K&N air filter(not as Good as originals, change back)
Hertz music system (3 big holes on sidecar)
Throttle Body Vacuum Ports
Beijing, China

User avatar
Albuquralque
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2017
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2017
Posts: 18537
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:46 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM

Re: oops, 4000miles oil change!! metal pieces.

Postby Albuquralque » Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:45 pm

Maybe you should wait and that way you can check what map you have loaded, get the OR 1.02 loaded, and check the balance at both idle and 3000 rpms.

That would be a good baseline to start with
"Put a little gravel in your travel"

Darrell - Albuquralque
2014 Patrol - Babe the Blue Ox
EFI Map OR 1.02
Throttle Body Vacuum Ports
K&N Air Filter
Raceway 2-into-1 Header (Right Side)
Previous Urals Owned: 2004 Wolf, 2006 Tourist, 2006 Patrol (TOW), 2006 Patrol (TOM)

User avatar
scip77
Party Member
Party Member
Posts: 100
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:50 pm

Re: oops, 4000miles oil change!! metal pieces.

Postby scip77 » Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:16 am

Albuquralque wrote:Maybe you should wait and that way you can check what map you have loaded, get the OR 1.02 loaded, and check the balance at both idle and 3000 rpms.

That would be a good baseline to start with


Got it! T hank you,
2015 early Gear up
Or map 1.02 off road
Bellof dba2012 led.
Hella ff50 (disconneted!)
Raceway 2in1 high mount right side, 2 brothers muffler
EJK(disconnected)
K&N air filter(not as Good as originals, change back)
Hertz music system (3 big holes on sidecar)
Throttle Body Vacuum Ports
Beijing, China

User avatar
Albuquralque
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2017
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2017
Posts: 18537
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:46 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM

Re: oops, 4000miles oil change!! metal pieces.

Postby Albuquralque » Tue Mar 15, 2016 11:25 am

Keep us posted.......:lurker:
"Put a little gravel in your travel"

Darrell - Albuquralque
2014 Patrol - Babe the Blue Ox
EFI Map OR 1.02
Throttle Body Vacuum Ports
K&N Air Filter
Raceway 2-into-1 Header (Right Side)
Previous Urals Owned: 2004 Wolf, 2006 Tourist, 2006 Patrol (TOW), 2006 Patrol (TOM)

User avatar
scip77
Party Member
Party Member
Posts: 100
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:50 pm

Re: oops, 4000miles oil change!! metal pieces.

Postby scip77 » Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:39 am

Albuquralque wrote:Keep us posted.......:lurker:


Ride 200kms these 2days, readjust the tappet. Left cylinder dosenot works as good as right one the same As before. Engine sounds mess louder than other ones 2015 newer ural (not sure if the efi map difference) when throttle up at 1or2 gear it jump hesitate, when throttle down back fire at muffler. Big gas smell from pipe.

My bad luck get a poor quality ural? Any suggestion?
2015 early Gear up
Or map 1.02 off road
Bellof dba2012 led.
Hella ff50 (disconneted!)
Raceway 2in1 high mount right side, 2 brothers muffler
EJK(disconnected)
K&N air filter(not as Good as originals, change back)
Hertz music system (3 big holes on sidecar)
Throttle Body Vacuum Ports
Beijing, China

gobium
Order of Victory
Order of Victory
Posts: 13910
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:06 pm

Re: oops, 4000miles oil change!! metal pieces.

Postby gobium » Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:46 am

Back fires sometimes due to incorrect valve settings.
edit.
do compression test. Make sure heads are not leaking due to bent valves

User avatar
scip77
Party Member
Party Member
Posts: 100
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:50 pm

Re: oops, 4000miles oil change!! metal pieces.

Postby scip77 » Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:22 am

gobium wrote:Back fires sometimes due to incorrect valve settings.
edit.
do compression test. Make sure heads are not leaking due to bent valves


Thank you for the reply, bent valves do you mean bent push rod? Compression test also sounds strange to me, I did not find any relative video on youtube.
2015 early Gear up
Or map 1.02 off road
Bellof dba2012 led.
Hella ff50 (disconneted!)
Raceway 2in1 high mount right side, 2 brothers muffler
EJK(disconnected)
K&N air filter(not as Good as originals, change back)
Hertz music system (3 big holes on sidecar)
Throttle Body Vacuum Ports
Beijing, China

User avatar
Wildhorse Cafe
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2017
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2017
Posts: 1245
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:28 pm
Location: King City, California

Re: oops, 4000miles oil change!! metal pieces.

Postby Wildhorse Cafe » Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:35 am

Don't ride it until you take to to dealer for warranty repair. Case flashing would not be magnetic, Cam or lifters.
2011 Patrol Higgs Bison Super Collider formally known as the Orange and Silver Pumpkin Coach
2006 Shinny Black, Tourist, Tatyanna

When you set out on your journey to Ithaca
pray the road is long , full of adventure, full of knowledge
not expecting that Ithaca will offer you riches
Ithaca has given you the beautiful voyage

C.P. Cavafy

User avatar
scip77
Party Member
Party Member
Posts: 100
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:50 pm

Re: oops, 4000miles oil change!! metal pieces.

Postby scip77 » Wed Mar 16, 2016 12:10 pm

I will buy a valve presure meter tomorrow.

Hi wildhorse cafe, I got warranty repair. Camshaft and lifters changed.
2015 early Gear up
Or map 1.02 off road
Bellof dba2012 led.
Hella ff50 (disconneted!)
Raceway 2in1 high mount right side, 2 brothers muffler
EJK(disconnected)
K&N air filter(not as Good as originals, change back)
Hertz music system (3 big holes on sidecar)
Throttle Body Vacuum Ports
Beijing, China

User avatar
Snakeoil
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2017
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2017
Posts: 3087
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:45 pm
Location: Upstate NY

Re: oops, 4000miles oil change!! metal pieces.

Postby Snakeoil » Wed Mar 16, 2016 12:18 pm

A bent valve means a bent valve stem. They usually bend near the head and this is the result of the valve hitting the piston. Only happens if valve timing is incorrect (mechanical change required for this), valve sticks in guide and piston hits it or engine was over-revved to point of valve float. When this happens the valve no longer seats and you get a compression leak. Bend an intake valve and it will backfire out the intake. Bend an exhaust valve and it will backfire out the exhaust. It will not run very well either and that cylinder will be down on power if it makes any power at all. I would have expected the shop that installed the cam and lifters to have inspected both heads to make sure all was well. It is a simple task to remove the valves and blue check the seats as well as check for straight stems.

I have no experiece with FI Urals. But I've read here that the early maps were severely lean. That would make it backfire out the carb as well as hesitate on acceleration. I imagine this is what everyone is talking about when they ask you which FI map you are running.

If you have a gasoline smell, and I mean raw gas not extremely rich mixture, then that cylinder is not firing or not firing all the time. That would make it backfire thru the exhaust because the exhaust loads up with fuel and then the hot exhaust charge from a firing stroke ignites it. Again, not familiar with the Ural FI system. But a question for those who are is, are the injectors known to leak? If so, you may be flooding that cylinder with a leaking injector. I may be wrong, but I would expect the fuel map to use the same map for both cyinders, so if one was improperly mapped, they both would be. Might be a bad assumption on my part. My point is, if that is the case and one cylinder runs fine, then the problem is downstream of the FI controller or in another system, like igntion.

I think it is time to get back to basics. You need to go thru all the systems that are required for the engine to run properly and make sure they are correct. Van's suggestion to run a compression test is part of that. The shop that did your rebuild can do one for you, or you can probably buy the gauge and do it yourself. A compression test is done by removing the spark plugs, grounding the plug wires, installing a compression test gauge in one spark plug hole and cranking the engine over with the starter while holding the throttle open. Record the highest reading. Then do the same on the other cylinder. They should both be over 150 psi and I would think 175 psi would be expected on a new engine. Others can comment on that point. Both cylinders should measure very near the same. If one is low, then you have a problem. Could be tight valve(s) clearance, bent valve, leaking head gasket, broken compression ring, seriously worn cylinder/rings (unlikely in new engine), poorly seated rings, cracked head, holed piston, and that's about it.

As you check out your systems, check everything. Make sure plug wires are well connected to the coil and to the plug cap. Check all ignition electrical connections. With everything confirmed in good condition, make sure it is adjusted properly and then functioning properly.

I've never done any FI troubleshooting, so can only guess at procedures. But if I were stuck far from a dealer and wanted to check things, I'd probably remove the injectors and see if either were leaking. I'd crank the engine and see how well they spray and if they spray equally well. I'd also look for leaky connections or restricted lines to the injectors if this is possible. Again, I'm thinking generally here since I don't know the Ural FI specifics. A question worth asking the FI experts here is, does the Ural FI have a rich, cold starting system? If so, is it possible for it to malfunction and make just one cylinder overly rich?
Regards,
Rob
2000 Ural Tourist
Before you say something stupid, always ask yourself, "What would Harpo say?".

User avatar
scip77
Party Member
Party Member
Posts: 100
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:50 pm

Re: oops, 4000miles oil change!! metal pieces.

Postby scip77 » Wed Mar 16, 2016 1:50 pm

Hi, Thank you so much Rob, I think i understand. I will buy a gauge tomorrow. After check the valve psi and stem, i will install ejk on it. Maybe that could overpass the FI map, balance the injector works for now. Just try before update new map.

I have more and more confidence to fix any problem with all your help, thank you guys.

Best regards,
Ma
2015 early Gear up
Or map 1.02 off road
Bellof dba2012 led.
Hella ff50 (disconneted!)
Raceway 2in1 high mount right side, 2 brothers muffler
EJK(disconnected)
K&N air filter(not as Good as originals, change back)
Hertz music system (3 big holes on sidecar)
Throttle Body Vacuum Ports
Beijing, China

User avatar
Albuquralque
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2017
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2017
Posts: 18537
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:46 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM

Re: oops, 4000miles oil change!! metal pieces.

Postby Albuquralque » Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:20 pm

Are you sure you adjusted all four valves according to the procedure?
"Put a little gravel in your travel"

Darrell - Albuquralque
2014 Patrol - Babe the Blue Ox
EFI Map OR 1.02
Throttle Body Vacuum Ports
K&N Air Filter
Raceway 2-into-1 Header (Right Side)
Previous Urals Owned: 2004 Wolf, 2006 Tourist, 2006 Patrol (TOW), 2006 Patrol (TOM)

User avatar
Albuquralque
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2017
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2017
Posts: 18537
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:46 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM

Re: oops, 4000miles oil change!! metal pieces.

Postby Albuquralque » Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:24 pm

1. Take both valve covers off.
2. Rotate engine to TDC (look for mark on flywheel in timing hole)
3. On left side head, try to spin both pushrods with just your fingers. If both spin freely, then check head torque (no more than 36 ft lbs) and
adjust valves on this side.
If the pushrods don't spin freely on the left side, then try spinning them on the right side. If they spin freely on the right side, then check
head torque and adjust the valves on the right side.
4. Rotate engine around until you get to TDC again. Go to the opposite side of the engine that you just adjusted the valves on in step 3.
The pushrods should spin freely with just your fingertips. Check head torque and then adjust the valves on this side.
5. Put valve covers back on and test it out.
"Put a little gravel in your travel"

Darrell - Albuquralque
2014 Patrol - Babe the Blue Ox
EFI Map OR 1.02
Throttle Body Vacuum Ports
K&N Air Filter
Raceway 2-into-1 Header (Right Side)
Previous Urals Owned: 2004 Wolf, 2006 Tourist, 2006 Patrol (TOW), 2006 Patrol (TOM)

User avatar
scip77
Party Member
Party Member
Posts: 100
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:50 pm

Re: oops, 4000miles oil change!! metal pieces.

Postby scip77 » Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:28 am

Albuquralque wrote:1. Take both valve covers off.
2. Rotate engine to TDC (look for mark on flywheel in timing hole)
3. On left side head, try to spin both pushrods with just your fingers. If both spin freely, then check head torque (no more than 36 ft lbs) and
adjust valves on this side.
If the pushrods don't spin freely on the left side, then try spinning them on the right side. If they spin freely on the right side, then check
head torque and adjust the valves on the right side.
4. Rotate engine around until you get to TDC again. Go to the opposite side of the engine that you just adjusted the valves on in step 3.
The pushrods should spin freely with just your fingertips. Check head torque and then adjust the valves on this side.
5. Put valve covers back on and test it out.


Yes, I follow these steps exactly.
2015 early Gear up
Or map 1.02 off road
Bellof dba2012 led.
Hella ff50 (disconneted!)
Raceway 2in1 high mount right side, 2 brothers muffler
EJK(disconnected)
K&N air filter(not as Good as originals, change back)
Hertz music system (3 big holes on sidecar)
Throttle Body Vacuum Ports
Beijing, China

User avatar
scip77
Party Member
Party Member
Posts: 100
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:50 pm

Re: oops, 4000miles oil change!! metal pieces.

Postby scip77 » Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:33 am

I bought a gauge test compression. About Left 120psi right 110psi
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
2015 early Gear up
Or map 1.02 off road
Bellof dba2012 led.
Hella ff50 (disconneted!)
Raceway 2in1 high mount right side, 2 brothers muffler
EJK(disconnected)
K&N air filter(not as Good as originals, change back)
Hertz music system (3 big holes on sidecar)
Throttle Body Vacuum Ports
Beijing, China


Return to “General Hammerin' and Wrenchin' (all model years)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests