oops, 4000miles oil change!! metal pieces.

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scip77
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Re: oops, 4000miles oil change!! metal pieces.

Postby scip77 » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:31 am

The White Rabbit wrote:$46,000????!!!!! Holy smokes! Did I read this right?


Yes, $11500 for license plate. Rest amount was bike and tax.
2015 early Gear up
Or map 1.02 off road
Bellof dba2012 led.
Hella ff50 (disconneted!)
Raceway 2in1 high mount right side, 2 brothers muffler
EJK(disconnected)
K&N air filter(not as Good as originals, change back)
Hertz music system (3 big holes on sidecar)
Throttle Body Vacuum Ports
Beijing, China

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Snakeoil
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Re: oops, 4000miles oil change!! metal pieces.

Postby Snakeoil » Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:24 pm

And they say that China is a not a capitalist nation. :boogie:

I had posted a reply and once again, it failed to show up. Since then you've gotten more responses.

First, I have to agree with all that say a bike this new should only be touched by the dealer and the warranty should dictate how you proceed.

That said, I have to take into account your location relative to the dealer and 1200 miles is not a short ride. And having driven in China back in the 80's I know it is not an easy drive. So, my comments are based on this one sticking point of distance.

The dealer said to run it if it does not make noise. That's fine provided they will stand behind it should it fail later. I would get them to put that statement in writing to you and make mention to the warranty.

Not sure how long your warranty is, but you might want to negotiate an extended warranty as a bit more protection. Given what you have paid for this rig, I think you should be able to negotiate an free extension. And of course, get it in writing.

Noise is normally a "too late" indicator. Noise means it has to come apart. So, if you do hear noise down the road, it's probably too late.

Now, if it is any comfort, those metal pieces look like machining chips to me. They are magnetic, so not casting flash as somebody guessed. The ones in your hand look like drill chips to me. I'm not convinced that Ivan has conquered the challenge of shop and engine assembly cleanliness and this may be simple some shop crud that found its way into the crankcases during manufacture. If there is a big dipping tank for cleaning parts, Ivan may only clean it once a year and a tech that does not know better could drop a case into the tank and stir up all the stuff that has been flushed out of other parts and some settled inside your case. So, this may just be a dirty sump issue and nothing else.

I think dropping the pan is not a bad idea to see what else might be in there. Get permission from your dealer and see if you cannot get him to put a new pan gasket and some sealer in the mail to you. You'll need one or both to put the pan back on. If you find more of the same, and it also looks like machine chips, it may be as I've suggested above and this might solve your isssue. If you do find more, by all means change the oil filter and save the old filter to dissect later to see what it trapped.

Small bits this size that are in the engine would probably not pass thru the oil pump. They could damage the oil pump but doubtful if the would get thru it. So, I don't see bits getting fed into the oil passaged. However, there is a possibility that these may have been hiding in places like the oil slingers. Some could have fallen out and other might have moved into the oil passages to the big end bearings (connecting rods). They could linger in a nook and then suddenly find their way into the bearing and seize that big end or at least damage the bearing/journal. The only way to find something like this to to completely disassemble the engine and inspect and flush out everything. You cannot take the crank apart so flushing is the only solution besides replacing the crank.

You could ask your dealer that in consideration of your locational issues, would they consent to a local shop having a look at your engine. I know that there are CJ's all over China and they are damn near the same machine. So I'm sure there is plenty of experience on these types of engines. If the dealer agrees, get it in writing and get them to confirm that they or the importer will pay for the service. Not sure how customer service oriented vendors in China are. You would be the expert in that area.

Regarding cam and lifter failures on late model FI engines, I would not expect chips like this from hardened parts. Normally, they crack and piece that are more chunky in nature break away. They don't cut chips. So, I would have to ask the Board, what is the failure mode for the cam/lifter issue. Is it soft mating surfaces and rapid wear or something else.

Okay, this is long enough. Hope the info was helpful. Hope you find it is a minor issue and not an internal engine component issue.
Regards,
Rob
2000 Ural Tourist
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Re: oops, 4000miles oil change!! metal pieces.

Postby roger99a » Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:55 am

I would bet it's a cam follower, that large piece looks familiar. Check your valve clearances.
Roger

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Re: oops, 4000miles oil change!! metal pieces.

Postby scip77 » Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:30 am

Snakeoil wrote:And they say that China is a not a capitalist nation. :boogie:

I had posted a reply and once again, it failed to show up. Since then you've gotten more responses.

First, I have to agree with all that say a bike this new should only be touched by the dealer and the warranty should dictate how you proceed.

That said, I have to take into account your location relative to the dealer and 1200 miles is not a short ride. And having driven in China back in the 80's I know it is not an easy drive. So, my comments are based on this one sticking point of distance.

The dealer said to run it if it does not make noise. That's fine provided they will stand behind it should it fail later. I would get them to put that statement in writing to you and make mention to the warranty.

Not sure how long your warranty is, but you might want to negotiate an extended warranty as a bit more protection. Given what you have paid for this rig, I think you should be able to negotiate an free extension. And of course, get it in writing.

Noise is normally a "too late" indicator. Noise means it has to come apart. So, if you do hear noise down the road, it's probably too late.

Now, if it is any comfort, those metal pieces look like machining chips to me. They are magnetic, so not casting flash as somebody guessed. The ones in your hand look like drill chips to me. I'm not convinced that Ivan has conquered the challenge of shop and engine assembly cleanliness and this may be simple some shop crud that found its way into the crankcases during manufacture. If there is a big dipping tank for cleaning parts, Ivan may only clean it once a year and a tech that does not know better could drop a case into the tank and stir up all the stuff that has been flushed out of other parts and some settled inside your case. So, this may just be a dirty sump issue and nothing else.

I think dropping the pan is not a bad idea to see what else might be in there. Get permission from your dealer and see if you cannot get him to put a new pan gasket and some sealer in the mail to you. You'll need one or both to put the pan back on. If you find more of the same, and it also looks like machine chips, it may be as I've suggested above and this might solve your isssue. If you do find more, by all means change the oil filter and save the old filter to dissect later to see what it trapped.

Small bits this size that are in the engine would probably not pass thru the oil pump. They could damage the oil pump but doubtful if the would get thru it. So, I don't see bits getting fed into the oil passaged. However, there is a possibility that these may have been hiding in places like the oil slingers. Some could have fallen out and other might have moved into the oil passages to the big end bearings (connecting rods). They could linger in a nook and then suddenly find their way into the bearing and seize that big end or at least damage the bearing/journal. The only way to find something like this to to completely disassemble the engine and inspect and flush out everything. You cannot take the crank apart so flushing is the only solution besides replacing the crank.

You could ask your dealer that in consideration of your locational issues, would they consent to a local shop having a look at your engine. I know that there are CJ's all over China and they are damn near the same machine. So I'm sure there is plenty of experience on these types of engines. If the dealer agrees, get it in writing and get them to confirm that they or the importer will pay for the service. Not sure how customer service oriented vendors in China are. You would be the expert in that area.

Regarding cam and lifter failures on late model FI engines, I would not expect chips like this from hardened parts. Normally, they crack and piece that are more chunky in nature break away. They don't cut chips. So, I would have to ask the Board, what is the failure mode for the cam/lifter issue. Is it soft mating surfaces and rapid wear or something else.

Okay, this is long enough. Hope the info was helpful. Hope you find it is a minor issue and not an internal engine component issue.


:cheers: Thank you so much for the long post, I'm waiting for the importers reply. Yes, these 2days I found and contacted several local motoshop till dealing the CJ sidecar business. I think technical support not a big problem. One of them even has ural ECU dealer tools which our local dealer even without it. I'm not sure warranty time, maybe one or two year. will confirm it with dealer. I bought this online, wechat with their sales transfer money… got the package. I'm not expect they pay for the services. Last 8month I already paid for a new battery, a bulletin said should reimbursed drive flange bolt service fee. Drive bolt broken result in secondary towing fee. Damaged fork lock repair cost Etc. I'm get use to it. While, harley bmw ural ducati ktm some big toy, extremely expensive in our country. Tax import customs blabla~

Thanks again for the reply, I will read it again carefully. Anyway, what i can do now is checking the valve, do some greasing job, waiting for dealers response.

Best regards,
Ma
2015 early Gear up
Or map 1.02 off road
Bellof dba2012 led.
Hella ff50 (disconneted!)
Raceway 2in1 high mount right side, 2 brothers muffler
EJK(disconnected)
K&N air filter(not as Good as originals, change back)
Hertz music system (3 big holes on sidecar)
Throttle Body Vacuum Ports
Beijing, China

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Re: oops, 4000miles oil change!! metal pieces.

Postby scip77 » Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:41 am

roger99a wrote:I would bet it's a cam follower, that large piece looks familiar. Check your valve clearances.


Thank you roger99a, i will check it now.
2015 early Gear up
Or map 1.02 off road
Bellof dba2012 led.
Hella ff50 (disconneted!)
Raceway 2in1 high mount right side, 2 brothers muffler
EJK(disconnected)
K&N air filter(not as Good as originals, change back)
Hertz music system (3 big holes on sidecar)
Throttle Body Vacuum Ports
Beijing, China

scip
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Re: oops, 4000miles oil change!! metal pieces.

Postby scip » Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:24 am

I found the left exhaust tappet run loose again. Now is 0.5mm several days before I set it at 0.1mm. I adjust it 3times this month.
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Albuquralque
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Re: oops, 4000miles oil change!! metal pieces.

Postby Albuquralque » Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:36 am

scip wrote:I found the left exhaust tappet run loose again. Now is 0.5mm several days before I set it at 0.1mm. I adjust it 3times this month.


That is the same lifter (tappet) that went bad on mine...the left exhaust. Now all you have to do is get the parts.

You can either replace just the two lifters on the left side or all four.

Keep us posted
"Put a little gravel in your travel"

Darrell - Albuquralque
2014 Patrol - Babe the Blue Ox
EFI Map OR 1.02
Throttle Body Vacuum Ports
K&N Air Filter
Raceway 2-into-1 Header (Right Side)
Previous Urals Owned: 2004 Wolf, 2006 Tourist, 2006 Patrol (TOW), 2006 Patrol (TOM)

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Re: oops, 4000miles oil change!! metal pieces.

Postby scip77 » Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:30 am

Albuquralque wrote:
scip wrote:I found the left exhaust tappet run loose again. Now is 0.5mm several days before I set it at 0.1mm. I adjust it 3times this month.


That is the same lifter (tappet) that went bad on mine...the left exhaust. Now all you have to do is get the parts.

You can either replace just the two lifters on the left side or all four.

Keep us posted


Absolutely, I will keep update. I have to waiting for importers offical response and solution although I found the problem. No reply since I send them pictures. Not sure whether they get in touched with IMZ.
2015 early Gear up
Or map 1.02 off road
Bellof dba2012 led.
Hella ff50 (disconneted!)
Raceway 2in1 high mount right side, 2 brothers muffler
EJK(disconnected)
K&N air filter(not as Good as originals, change back)
Hertz music system (3 big holes on sidecar)
Throttle Body Vacuum Ports
Beijing, China

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Re: oops, 4000miles oil change!! metal pieces.

Postby scip77 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 3:43 am

Update with these pictures, broken exhaust lifter, broken cam lobe…

The hardest part is remove peen materials from lifter block helding screw.
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2015 early Gear up
Or map 1.02 off road
Bellof dba2012 led.
Hella ff50 (disconneted!)
Raceway 2in1 high mount right side, 2 brothers muffler
EJK(disconnected)
K&N air filter(not as Good as originals, change back)
Hertz music system (3 big holes on sidecar)
Throttle Body Vacuum Ports
Beijing, China

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Albuquralque
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Re: oops, 4000miles oil change!! metal pieces.

Postby Albuquralque » Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:38 am

Good find!, but some bad news.......what's your next step?
"Put a little gravel in your travel"

Darrell - Albuquralque
2014 Patrol - Babe the Blue Ox
EFI Map OR 1.02
Throttle Body Vacuum Ports
K&N Air Filter
Raceway 2-into-1 Header (Right Side)
Previous Urals Owned: 2004 Wolf, 2006 Tourist, 2006 Patrol (TOW), 2006 Patrol (TOM)

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Re: oops, 4000miles oil change!! metal pieces.

Postby Albuquralque » Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:41 am

If you decide to pull your own engine to get at the cam shaft......make sure you take plenty of pictures before doing anything....
Take pics of everything around the engine on both sides of the bike....routing of cables, fuel lines, how things line up. You will be referencing these pictures when you go to put it back together.

Also, on you alternator adapter, scribe a mark on the side of the adapter and at the same spot on the engine case. That way you can line these marks back up when reinstalling the alternator adapter and the gear lash will stay the same.
"Put a little gravel in your travel"

Darrell - Albuquralque
2014 Patrol - Babe the Blue Ox
EFI Map OR 1.02
Throttle Body Vacuum Ports
K&N Air Filter
Raceway 2-into-1 Header (Right Side)
Previous Urals Owned: 2004 Wolf, 2006 Tourist, 2006 Patrol (TOW), 2006 Patrol (TOM)

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Re: oops, 4000miles oil change!! metal pieces.

Postby gobium » Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:43 am

That is POS cam shaft from Taiwan!

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Re: oops, 4000miles oil change!! metal pieces.

Postby scip77 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:16 am

Owing to your opinion, I checked camshaft. Further repair beyond my ability, have to remove whole engine. I think Ural China boss Alex can solve this problem properly. Waiting for their arrangement.
2015 early Gear up
Or map 1.02 off road
Bellof dba2012 led.
Hella ff50 (disconneted!)
Raceway 2in1 high mount right side, 2 brothers muffler
EJK(disconnected)
K&N air filter(not as Good as originals, change back)
Hertz music system (3 big holes on sidecar)
Throttle Body Vacuum Ports
Beijing, China

User avatar
scip77
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Re: oops, 4000miles oil change!! metal pieces.

Postby scip77 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:17 am

I was thinking by this chance, should I upgrade some parts? Like better bearing?
2015 early Gear up
Or map 1.02 off road
Bellof dba2012 led.
Hella ff50 (disconneted!)
Raceway 2in1 high mount right side, 2 brothers muffler
EJK(disconnected)
K&N air filter(not as Good as originals, change back)
Hertz music system (3 big holes on sidecar)
Throttle Body Vacuum Ports
Beijing, China

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Re: oops, 4000miles oil change!! metal pieces.

Postby jaybird » Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:46 am

[quote="Snakeoil"]And they say that China is a not a capitalist nation. :boogie:

Rob, That's all Government bureaucratic taxes/fee's, nothing to do with Capitalists.

Happy trails,
Jaybird
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Etc.


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