Phoenix Rising - A Ural Rebuild Saga

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scottolds
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Re: Phoenix Rising - A Ural Rebuild Saga

Postby scottolds » Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:39 pm

mouka wrote:Scott:

You are putting me to shame. I have a bike that just needs some carb cleaning and some basic maintenance and I am bitching and moaning. You have an entire engine to take apart and a ton of things to fix and you seem to take it in stride. You are on cool dude in my dictionary.
Please take good videos and pictures of what you are doing. We might use them as a "How to fix everything on your Ural" series. I am serious when I said that. You could provide some serious help to the rest of us noobs that know nothing about mechanical work.

Thanks and keep them coming!


No shame intended. I think once you get the stuff done on a bike that has been sitting, you should have yourself a very nice ride at an incredible deal.

I am figuring this out as I go along :lol:

I think you will see by the time this is done, there is nothing too terribly complicated on the Ural that can't be torn apart and fixed by most anyone.

Now I am not digging into the transmission or final drive at this time and hope I don't have to anytime soon.
2009 KLR650
1987 Honda VF700C Super Magna
2011 Ural Gear-UP - отвлекающий маневр
1994 Kawasaki Voyager XII
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scottolds
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Re: Phoenix Rising - A Ural Rebuild Saga

Postby scottolds » Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:40 pm

Snakeoil wrote:Scott,

Harbor Freight sells a gear puller set that is worth the money. You will end up using it when you disassemble your engine. It has a tapered puller that will scoot in under the bearing so you can pull it. Often, just bolting the two halves together is enough to lift the bearing from the surface against which it is seated. They also sell a very large puller for bigger items. I have one of of each and actually ground the larger one to almost a knife edge to get under items to be pulled.

Here is the gear puller set I have. http://www.harborfreight.com/14-piece-g ... 30305.html

While doing the search, I see that then also now offer a bearing puller set. I'd have to see it to determine if it is the better choice. But you can make that determination when you go look at them. Here's the bearing puller set.
http://www.harborfreight.com/bearing-se ... 93980.html

The very large bearing puller I bought separately no longer seems to be offered.

HF tools can be a crap shoot. But my puller set is well worth the money. Actually, I find that most of their hand tools are pretty good and a great deal. I purchase extra sets of wrenches so I can grind them to fit into limited spaces, like the oil drain plug on my Tourist, which is partially blocked by the exhaust balance pipe. Damn Ivan!

regards,
Rob



I do have that puller. Just need to pull it out of the box. :)
2009 KLR650
1987 Honda VF700C Super Magna
2011 Ural Gear-UP - отвлекающий маневр
1994 Kawasaki Voyager XII
http://www.rokkitrider.com

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Re: Phoenix Rising - A Ural Rebuild Saga

Postby scottolds » Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:43 pm

Mothra35 wrote:Moving right along :thumbsup:

I was going to ask about the valves and cylinders if that would effect the size of them,, but I am on here when I am at work most of the time and get stopped a lot for work (how dare they interrupt my web surfing :lol: ) so I forgot and just pop corned ya



:lurker:


The coatings are quite thin and I don't think they will affect anything negatively. I guess I will find out as I start putting things together.

More coating details to come.

You can read up on it if you want to:

http://swaintech.com/race-coatings/motorcycle-coatings/
2009 KLR650
1987 Honda VF700C Super Magna
2011 Ural Gear-UP - отвлекающий маневр
1994 Kawasaki Voyager XII
http://www.rokkitrider.com

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scottolds
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Bearings and Upgrades question

Postby scottolds » Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:58 am

So I was going through the upgrade through the years on Ural trying to decide if there are any upgrades I want to do while I put it back together.

One thing I saw was that in 2008 there was this upgrade: Tapered steering head bearings (SKF)

To me that should mean that the tapered steering head bearings are SKF bearings which are high quality German made bearings.

So I wonder why my 2011 has KG brand bearings in the steering head :o

Image

Makes me wonder if all the other bearings that are supposed to be SKF are actually SKF bearings or some other manufacturer.

Does the improvement mean only SKF bearing were used that one year and then they are free to change suppliers to save money in the following years :?

Since I have everything apart it is easy to tell. I just need to break out the magnifying glass.

There were a few upgrade on the list for after 2011 that interest me. Here they are in no particular order.

1. For 2012 - The sidecar drive distance bushing has been changed to help reduce drive bearing failures. : I am not sure exactly what this refers to. If anyone knows feel free to chime in. With everything disassembled, this is a good time to make changes.

2. For 2012 - The new brake switch is an electronic, spring-operated switch that is commonly seen throughout the industry. It is manufactured by K&S and can be used as an upgrade on any Ural with the use of a few new parts. : I will check into this one since my 2011 brake switch (if this is the one for the rear brakes) is very corroded.

3. For 2012 - The clutch slider will now use a double o-ring for better sealing. The additional o-ring acts as a dust seal preventing damage to the inner most o-ring from dirt and debris. : I figure this could not hurt adding an additional o-ring

4. For 2012 - The clutch rod arm now uses a standard shoulder bolt in place of the original pin with cotter key. : I would expect this would be another easy upgrade. Will have to do some looking to see if it is worth the time.

5. For 2012 - The factory made brake linkage forks and pins have been replaced with standard off the shelf parts. : All my brake linkage is very rusty. Might have to do this one too.

6. For 2012 - New front brake reaction link replaces the original bar with bushings.: Will have to see if I can find pictures of this to compare to mine. Probably not worth doing but who knows.

7. For 2012 - The new tie rod style link uses ball joints at each end and will provide a longer service life. No more rubber or poly bushings needed. : Not exactly sure what this refers to. I suspect since it is under the one above, it is referencing the new brake reaction link. On my 2011, the front brake is creaky.

8. For 2013 - New pushrods with better materials for increased performance : Am considering a push rod upgrade. Either these or the Modtop pushrods.

Enough thoughts for tonight :)
2009 KLR650
1987 Honda VF700C Super Magna
2011 Ural Gear-UP - отвлекающий маневр
1994 Kawasaki Voyager XII
http://www.rokkitrider.com

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Re: Phoenix Rising - A Ural Rebuild Saga

Postby Lmo » Tue Jan 12, 2016 4:50 pm

"High Qualify" or not, the load that any tapered roller bearing, of this size, can withstand far exceeds the weight of the rig. And it is only enduring fractional rotation, maybe 90°?

Why use tapered bearings? Easier to install and maintain, but would still benefit from an occasional rotation of the race assembly.

EDIT ... occasional rotation of the CAGE ASSEMBLY (to minimize wear spots on the race)
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Re: Phoenix Rising - A Ural Rebuild Saga

Postby scottolds » Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:49 am

After being forced by my wife to take a week long cruise in the Caribbean for her birthday, I decided I needed to do at least something small on the Ural project today. :)

I decided that lapping the new valves would give me a small amount of progress and not require me to move too much around in the garage.

The original plan for today was to do some soda blasting of the body parts. But I woke up late and my painting materials were not with me. I sent my refinish stuff to a friend that was going to bead blast and prime a bunch of parts for me while I was away. Unfortunately, he was not able to get to it so he still had my supplies. :(

Anyway, pulled out the new valves and did some lapping.
Image

Image

Image

So minor progress, but progress none the less. I would have finished them up but got distracted by football.

No regrets taking the week off for the cruise. Other than one day of 60-70 knot winds, a coast guard medi-vac, and what seemed to be 20-30 foot seas, it was quite relaxing.

Next weekend will start with putting front wheel bearing hubs and tie rods on my car so I can drive to NC on Feb 3rd for work. Hopefully that goes fast enough so I can get back on the Ural project.
2009 KLR650
1987 Honda VF700C Super Magna
2011 Ural Gear-UP - отвлекающий маневр
1994 Kawasaki Voyager XII
http://www.rokkitrider.com

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The right tool for the job

Postby scottolds » Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:01 pm

So after working on the valves with the cheap lapping tool and getting frustrated with how poorly it was working I decided to do some research and found an old school valve grinder tool made in the USA that should speed things up and give a much better sealing surface in much much much less time.

Image

Image

For me a good part of the enjoyment of this rebuild process is getting some new tools :lol:


Of course, I have mixed feelings about this. While I will have all the right tools to completely rebuild a Ural, I hope I never ever need to use them again :wink:

However, if I find me a good deal on a non-runner then I won't feel bad about breaking the tools out again.

And, if anyone near ends up in a similar situation I would be able to offer some assistance.

So far, with the new tool I got one valve lapped with a very nice and even seat surface in just a few minutes. Now to do the other 3 valves.
2009 KLR650
1987 Honda VF700C Super Magna
2011 Ural Gear-UP - отвлекающий маневр
1994 Kawasaki Voyager XII
http://www.rokkitrider.com

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Re: Phoenix Rising - A Ural Rebuild Saga

Postby Mothra35 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:03 am

Having all those tools is like having insurance that you never will need them again.....or buy every broken down URAL on the road and fix 'n it up.

:lurker:


Hey, I was just looking at your "blog" page and next time you pass through Louisiana like your last adventure you passed like 30min from my house. I can offer up a free meal, shower, and place to stay also garage keep the Ural overnight or a day or two. $#!+ I'd even ride with you a ways then head back home. :cheers:
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Re: Phoenix Rising - A Ural Rebuild Saga

Postby scottolds » Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:24 am

Mothra35 wrote:
Hey, I was just looking at your "blog" page and next time you pass through Louisiana like your last adventure you passed like 30min from my house. I can offer up a free meal, shower, and place to stay also garage keep the Ural overnight or a day or two. $#!+ I'd even ride with you a ways then head back home. :cheers:


Hope the ride reports kept your interest :D

Next planned trip is to Las Vegas in April. IF the Ural is ready, I am taking it. :clap: If it is not ready, I will take the KLR.

I need another trip to work on my live trip reporting skills.
2009 KLR650
1987 Honda VF700C Super Magna
2011 Ural Gear-UP - отвлекающий маневр
1994 Kawasaki Voyager XII
http://www.rokkitrider.com

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Re: Phoenix Rising - A Ural Rebuild Saga

Postby scottolds » Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:44 am

So today was spent stripping the sidecar frame down to bare metal. I also stripped the paint off the rear fender and some other smaller parts.

Based on how I had large chunks of the frame coating flaking off, I make the wrong assumption that whatever the factory used to coat the frames would come off easily. After not being able to get some smaller parts stripped with a heavy duty blast cabinet with fresh glass beads and plenty of air flow I realized that the coating used by the factory is very tough (where it doesn't get moisture and rust underneath).

So I found using a chemical stripper, a scraper, a wire brush attachment for my grinder, and some steel wool soaked in laquer thinner works pretty well. The goal was to get the frame and body to bare metal so it can be sealed properly for the long term. I also wanted to do it with tools I already had and as inexpensively as possible. If I wanted to put more money into it, I would have taken it somewhere to remove all the coating and then it would have been their problem. But, I was having difficulty getting a straight answer on how much it would cost which usually means it is more than I want to spend. I figure saving that money and investing more of my own sweat equity will make me appreciate it more and I can always use the money saved to get me to Las Vegas in April.

Here are a few pictures

The sidecar frame before I started on it
Image

It would have been much faster to just touch up the areas where the rust was on the frame, but it would not be as much fun :lol: And I would always be wondering when the other parts would need it later.

Here is a shot after the stripper was sprayed on. Some sections bubbled almost immediately. Other took longer (or a second application)
Image

A close up of the bubbling.
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Image

When it looked like that, the coating came off really easy.

After a few hours of working (with some breaks) Here is what I ended up with.

Image

Image

Here is the first shot at the fender. Sorry didn't take an after of that one today (but it turned out really nice)

Image

I will be working on some of the smaller parts after work during the week and next weekend I hope to have the bike frame and sidecar stripped down to bare metal.
2009 KLR650
1987 Honda VF700C Super Magna
2011 Ural Gear-UP - отвлекающий маневр
1994 Kawasaki Voyager XII
http://www.rokkitrider.com

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Re: Phoenix Rising - A Ural Rebuild Saga

Postby Doc » Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:13 am

looking forward to reading about your engine ceramic coating once you get it put all back together. I am surprised Van has not done this, as he has torn down and rebuilt his fair share of Ural engines.
:cheers:
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Re: Phoenix Rising - A Ural Rebuild Saga

Postby scottolds » Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:16 am

Doc wrote:looking forward to reading about your engine ceramic coating once you get it put all back together. I am surprised Van has not done this, as he has torn down and rebuilt his fair share of Ural engines.
:cheers:


If I had a bigger work space, I would have had the engine done by now. Unfortunately, I have the space to choose between working on the body work and paint or do the engine.

The plan is once the frame is all done and back together, I can switch back to the engine.

I am looking forward to finding out if it was money well spent or not myself. :lol:
2009 KLR650
1987 Honda VF700C Super Magna
2011 Ural Gear-UP - отвлекающий маневр
1994 Kawasaki Voyager XII
http://www.rokkitrider.com

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Re: Phoenix Rising - A Ural Rebuild Saga

Postby WEGUNTER » Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:52 pm

Scottolds,

Awesome job on those heads and valves. they look fantastic.

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Re: Phoenix Rising - A Ural Rebuild Saga

Postby scottolds » Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:57 pm

WEGUNTER wrote:Scottolds,

Awesome job on those heads and valves. they look fantastic.


Thanks

Even if it runs horribly once it is back together, it will at least be beautiful :lol:

If I am going to meet my own deadline for finishing, you will be seeing many more posts on this rebuild in the near future.

Not exactly sure why, but it seems the only way to get projects done is to have a hard deadline.
2009 KLR650
1987 Honda VF700C Super Magna
2011 Ural Gear-UP - отвлекающий маневр
1994 Kawasaki Voyager XII
http://www.rokkitrider.com

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Re: The right tool for the job

Postby Snakeoil » Mon Feb 15, 2016 6:11 pm

scottolds wrote:So after working on the valves with the cheap lapping tool and getting frustrated with how poorly it was working I decided to do some research and found an old school valve grinder tool made in the USA that should speed things up and give a much better sealing surface in much much much less time....So far, with the new tool I got one valve lapped with a very nice and even seat surface in just a few minutes. Now to do the other 3 valves.


I have one of those, in the box as well. It was my Dad's. It works pretty good. But I find that a dowel and a suction cup work pretty good, too.

You don't see many of those around anymore.
Regards,
Rob
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