Phoenix Rising - A Ural Rebuild Saga

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scottolds
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Re: Phoenix Rising - A Ural Rebuild Saga

Postby scottolds » Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:05 pm

motoleo wrote:I believe you are correct about the barbs on the pins.


Decided to go out and try getting the pins out using a thin flat blade screwdriver.

Success!! :boogie:

Was fairly easy with the right tool

I first tried with a pick and didn't get anywhere. The small screwdriver made short work of it.

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2009 KLR650
1987 Honda VF700C Super Magna
2011 Ural Gear-UP - отвлекающий маневр
1994 Kawasaki Voyager XII
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Nothing more bolted together and more questions

Postby scottolds » Sun Jan 10, 2016 12:31 pm

So other than the Gearbox and Final Drive, the Ural is now in separate pieces in boxes, bags, and semi neatly positioned on the floor of my garage. Today will be spent starting the paint removal process and/or doing some engine work like fixing the busted bolt in the front crank bearing support and maybe assembling the heads.

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While disassembling I noticed the following issues:

1. The steering head bearings were very rough feeling when turning the bars. As I disassembled the tree, I found the adjusting nut for the bearings was so tight that even hitting the adjusting/removing wrench with a hammer many many times had no effect. I had to break out the 41mm giant socket and impact wrench to get it off.

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The bearings did have a small amount of grease on them. But they are a bit rusty.
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The issue I think I will have here is how to get the bottom bearing off which is firmly stuck on the shaft and there isn't really any way I can see to get a puller up under it. Also, the bearing race look like they may prove to be difficult since at first look I did not see any notches where I could get a punch in to get the race. I seem to recall seeing a video once of having to weld on race in order to get it out. Since I am not a welder, I may have to figure something out or take a drive to Holopaw and see if I can get some assistance.

Also the bearings have a 32006 number on them and the brand appears to be KG which when doing a search online comes up as an economy agricultural bearing that is 30mm inside x 55mm outside x 17mm width.

Moving on to the fork tubes, the upper cap thread seems like they might need some cleanup. One of the upper caps was very difficult to unscrew, while the other unscrewed just fine.

2. The second issue is the bearings in the bottom of the fork down tubes are not smooth either and I will probably replace them too. It looks like there are 2 per tube with a spacer in between (an inside and outside).

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3. The third issue are the rear swing arm bearings. They are also pretty rough feeling and will probably be replaced. Seems like they are also an inner and outer per side.

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4. The fourth issue is the cotter pins that hold the brake linkage and the center stand are pretty much rusted so they won't turn or pull through. On the center stand, I had to break off each side of the cotter pin so I could get the side stand off.

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5. Fifth issue is I need to find a source for the Ypan decal. I saw they were available a few years ago, but it seemed like it was a limited time thing. I do like the looks of it better than the standard block Ural lettering.

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Now time to get to work and see if I can make more progress today.
2009 KLR650
1987 Honda VF700C Super Magna
2011 Ural Gear-UP - отвлекающий маневр
1994 Kawasaki Voyager XII
http://www.rokkitrider.com

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Re: Phoenix Rising - A Ural Rebuild Saga

Postby loco627 » Sun Jan 10, 2016 7:10 pm

In the world of Harley, we remove that lower bearing by cutting the cage of with a hammer and chisel. Then remove all the loose bearings and heat the inner race a torch and it'll pry up pretty easily.

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Re: Phoenix Rising - A Ural Rebuild Saga

Postby scottolds » Sun Jan 10, 2016 7:56 pm

loco627 wrote:In the world of Harley, we remove that lower bearing by cutting the cage of with a hammer and chisel. Then remove all the loose bearings and heat the inner race a torch and it'll pry up pretty easily.


Will probably end up giving that a try. Might try heating it first and then try prying it off. If that doesn't work I will start cutting :D
2009 KLR650
1987 Honda VF700C Super Magna
2011 Ural Gear-UP - отвлекающий маневр
1994 Kawasaki Voyager XII
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Re: Phoenix Rising - A Ural Rebuild Saga

Postby Lmo » Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:39 pm

The steering head bearings on my Ural leading link fork took nothing more than a wood chisel with a fine taper on it. I placed the chisel at the base of the bearing race/triple clamp, gave it a slight tap (and I do mean tap), and then worked my way around. It lifted right off.

The neck bearing had the slightest edge exposed inside the frame tube, just enough to get a drift on it. Same result; slight tap, worked around, came right out. If not so lucky, Van (govium) has a good video on a technique too, I'd post it but I can't relocate it. The method, since you're replacing the both parts, is to spot weld a piece of scrap across the bearing race, and then used that as a "purchase" to drive out the race.

Picked up a new set of bearing from Cycleworks; a perfect fit.

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Read> viewtopic.php?f=11&t=41261&start=15
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Re: Phoenix Rising - A Ural Rebuild Saga

Postby mouka » Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:29 pm

I am really enjoying seeing someone rebuilding an entire Ural. I have some remarks though:
1: There is a lot of rust for a bike that is 4 years old. Is the quality of Ural bikes this bad?
2: it seems that these bikes are under-engineered. There are so many issues Ural bikes can develop. I am used to the reliability of Honda bikes and this Urals' tendency to break down fairly easily is shocking.
3: The Ural bikes seems to have been stuck in the mid 20th century. I know that newer Urals have fuel injection and disk brakes, but the rest of the bike seems to be of similar quality to Chinese bikes. You use them one season and they break down beyond any possible repairs.
Can someone please chime in and let me know if I got these remarks right or if I am completely off target?
2005 Honda Sabre 1100
2003 Ural Tourist
1998 Honda Aero 1100

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Re: Phoenix Rising - A Ural Rebuild Saga

Postby scottolds » Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:42 pm

Lmo wrote:The steering head bearings on my Ural leading link fork took nothing more than a wood chisel with a fine taper on it. I placed the chisel at the base of the bearing race/triple clamp, gave it a slight tap (and I do mean tap), and then worked my way around. It lifted right off.


Thanks for the advice. I will definitely give that a try first.

Spent a nice day disassembling and cleaning things today. Got all the swing arm bearings, fork pivot bearings, and sidecar swing arm bearings out today. Even got the tool box tank lid off with no issues.

Once those last steering head bearings are separated, I will have to get everything ready so I can start putting things back together. Not to mention buying new bearings :lol:
2009 KLR650
1987 Honda VF700C Super Magna
2011 Ural Gear-UP - отвлекающий маневр
1994 Kawasaki Voyager XII
http://www.rokkitrider.com

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Re: Phoenix Rising - A Ural Rebuild Saga

Postby scottolds » Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:19 pm

mouka wrote:I am really enjoying seeing someone rebuilding an entire Ural. I have some remarks though:


Thanks. I have not seen many full on restoration threads done. If anything, it will give anyone a pretty good idea of what it takes to completely tear one down into pieces and then put it back together.

mouka wrote:1: There is a lot of rust for a bike that is 4 years old. Is the quality of Ural bikes this bad?


You are correct, there is a lot of rust for a 4 year old bike in my opinion as well. Now to clarify something, the previous owner used this as his winter bike in Iowa. While it was stored in a heated building when not ridden, the salt did take its toll on the frame coating.

Given that, the rust you see if the result of the paint lifting most likely as a result of the salt and moisture getting into the paint which makes me think the issue is more with the paint/primer used and the environment in which it was used. A bike not run all winter long should stay pretty good. The frame, swing arm, center stand do have more surface rust than I would like, but this thing is super heavy like a tank. even if I left it as is, it would be many years before anything would rust through. My hope is that by using better finishing materials, it will potentially out last me. (at least the finish).

mouka wrote:2: it seems that these bikes are under-engineered. There are so many issues Ural bikes can develop. I am used to the reliability of Honda bikes and this Urals' tendency to break down fairly easily is shocking.


A Ural is no Honda. My Super Magna has over 70,000 problem free miles on it. Finally stopped riding it because it got totaled :cry: My Kawasaki went 60,000 miles before it decided to throw its counter balancer chain chewing up the bottom end (which I fixed myself in two weeks time so I could ride to Colorado this summer)

However, I can fix anything on the Ural, the Honda, or the Kawasaki I do feel that successful and problem free Ural ownership requires two things:

1. A certain amount of luck - Some things can fail early but they are normally during warranty period. Though there are plenty of people with little or no problems.

2. An owner in tune with the machine - Understand how it works, what its limitations are, and stay within those limitations. If you pay attention to the bike, it will give you fair warning on just about everything.

A Ural is not for everyone.


mouka wrote:3: The Ural bikes seems to have been stuck in the mid 20th century. I know that newer Urals have fuel injection and disk brakes, but the rest of the bike seems to be of similar quality to Chinese bikes. You use them one season and they break down beyond any possible repairs.

Can someone please chime in and let me know if I got these remarks right or if I am completely off target?


A Ural is mostly old tech. That is part of the appeal. I have no experience with Chinese bikes so will not comment.

I will say that if I was in your situation and got a low mileage Ural in mostly excellent condition that was sitting for what you paid for it, I would be thrilled. Taking any motorcycle that has been sitting neglected for years will require the same amount of work to make it run again as yours does. Even a Honda. Cleaning carbs out, replacing float needles, flushing and possibly sealing the tank, replacing any dry rotted tires and tubes, changing and flushing all fluids, and lubing stuff properly is all it should take. Depending on the moisture level it was sitting in for those years, you might want to check any electrical connection for corrosion and clean them. Not to mention a new battery. This is the same thing you do on any motorcycle that has been sitting.

If I was near you, I would love an opportunity to help bring another one back. One good weekend of work is all it should take.

With all that said, I hope it helps to answer your questions.

In order to keep this thread on topic, I will ask others to refrain from answering those questions here since this is a build thread. That way, anyone looking in the future won't have to sift through a bunch of off topic posts.

If you want others to chime in, please start a new thread posing those questions.
2009 KLR650
1987 Honda VF700C Super Magna
2011 Ural Gear-UP - отвлекающий маневр
1994 Kawasaki Voyager XII
http://www.rokkitrider.com

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Tearing down some more and cleaning up

Postby scottolds » Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:52 pm

Today was spent de-greasing everything and removing any bearings and anything else where two parts are still together.

This is necessary so I can do the best possible job cleaning, stripping, and repainting everything.

Bearings removed from leading link fork tubes
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A close up of the number on the bearing. Will end up needing 8 of these. There are 2 in each down tube and two in each side of the rear swing arm.

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Got the bearings and spline stub out of the side car swing arm. Will need two bearings for this. If I had not removed them, I could have used them as they were fine. I removed them so I can better clean up and paint the swing arm.

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Here is the smaller of the two bearings in the swingarm
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Here is the number on the larger one
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I also pulled the tool box tank door off but didn't seem to take any pictures of it.

I also scoped inside my gas tank and was pleased that it was mostly clean. a little bit of surface rust in a few spots. I might go and use a cleaner/sealer just to keep it nice forever. Still on the fence about that though.
2009 KLR650
1987 Honda VF700C Super Magna
2011 Ural Gear-UP - отвлекающий маневр
1994 Kawasaki Voyager XII
http://www.rokkitrider.com

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Re: Engine Parts

Postby Doc » Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:13 am

scottolds wrote:One of the reasons I chose to pull the Ural completely apart was to resist the temptation to just get the motor back together, put it in and go riding. :?

Since who knows when I would then get around to taking care of the flaking paint and rust. I figured it was a better choice to be committed to my original plan.

Here is what a box of Ural engine parts waiting to go back together looks like:

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Some new pistons
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Some new valves
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Some new cylinders
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Cylinder Heads cleaned up
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Just to keep it interesting I will probably switch off between the body and frame repaint and putting the engine together. Not sure I have the attention span to stay focused on one or the other too long :lol:


Wow you really did tear this down to parade rest (U.S. Navy Term :) ). Have you considered getting these parts ceramic coated? Not sure what the cost would, but seems to me that since you are this far into it, it might be a good idea.

Checkout this website, I am looking at getting the exhaust system on my 2015 GU ceramic coated by them since they are local.
http://ramproline.com/faq.htm

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Re: Engine Parts

Postby scottolds » Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:17 am

Doc wrote:Wow you really did tear this down to parade rest (U.S. Navy Term :) ). Have you considered getting these parts ceramic coated? Not sure what the cost would, but seems to me that since you are this far into it, it might be a good idea.

Checkout this website, I am looking at getting the exhaust system on my 2015 GU ceramic coated by them since they are local.
http://ramproline.com/faq.htm

:cheers:


Hi Doc,

I am familiar with the term (as a former SeaBee).

I think I just like unbolting things :lol:

If you look closely at the engine parts those are before and afters. The pistons, valves, heads, and cylinders have all been coated. I am a little surprised nobody has asked about it.

I did pick up a set of exhaust that was Jet Hot coated earlier in the year which I plan to install.

I plan on giving more details on the engine parts coatings and the reason why when I get into the engine rebuild phase.

Thanks for following along on my little project :D
2009 KLR650
1987 Honda VF700C Super Magna
2011 Ural Gear-UP - отвлекающий маневр
1994 Kawasaki Voyager XII
http://www.rokkitrider.com

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Re: Phoenix Rising - A Ural Rebuild Saga

Postby Doc » Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:23 am

Scottolds,

I spent 3 years with Underwater Construction Team TWO in Port Hueneme where I got my SCWS pin. Looking forward to reading about your rebuild and the details on the engine parts coatings and the reason why you choose to do it.

If and when I end up in the same situation, I am sure I would take the plunge on ceramic coating the engine parts as well.
Have a Fine Navy Day.
HMCS(DSW/SCW) USN Retired
2015 Ural Gear-Up
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Re: Phoenix Rising - A Ural Rebuild Saga

Postby Mothra35 » Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:42 am

Moving right along :thumbsup:

I was going to ask about the valves and cylinders if that would effect the size of them,, but I am on here when I am at work most of the time and get stopped a lot for work (how dare they interrupt my web surfing :lol: ) so I forgot and just pop corned ya



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Re: Phoenix Rising - A Ural Rebuild Saga

Postby Snakeoil » Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:34 pm

Scott,

Harbor Freight sells a gear puller set that is worth the money. You will end up using it when you disassemble your engine. It has a tapered puller that will scoot in under the bearing so you can pull it. Often, just bolting the two halves together is enough to lift the bearing from the surface against which it is seated. They also sell a very large puller for bigger items. I have one of of each and actually ground the larger one to almost a knife edge to get under items to be pulled.

Here is the gear puller set I have. http://www.harborfreight.com/14-piece-g ... 30305.html

While doing the search, I see that then also now offer a bearing puller set. I'd have to see it to determine if it is the better choice. But you can make that determination when you go look at them. Here's the bearing puller set.
http://www.harborfreight.com/bearing-se ... 93980.html

The very large bearing puller I bought separately no longer seems to be offered.

HF tools can be a crap shoot. But my puller set is well worth the money. Actually, I find that most of their hand tools are pretty good and a great deal. I purchase extra sets of wrenches so I can grind them to fit into limited spaces, like the oil drain plug on my Tourist, which is partially blocked by the exhaust balance pipe. Damn Ivan!

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Rob
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Re: Phoenix Rising - A Ural Rebuild Saga

Postby mouka » Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:31 pm

Scott:

You are putting me to shame. I have a bike that just needs some carb cleaning and some basic maintenance and I am bitching and moaning. You have an entire engine to take apart and a ton of things to fix and you seem to take it in stride. You are on cool dude in my dictionary.
Please take good videos and pictures of what you are doing. We might use them as a "How to fix everything on your Ural" series. I am serious when I said that. You could provide some serious help to the rest of us noobs that know nothing about mechanical work.

Thanks and keep them coming!
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2003 Ural Tourist
1998 Honda Aero 1100


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