4 Hours in the snow to find out it's FIXED!

Are ya having a problem with your rig? We'll try to help. Share your tech tips and experiences here. Dr. Billy Glaser, author of the "Unofficial 750 Ural Service Manual" site myural.com, is moderating this section.
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4 Hours in the snow to find out it's FIXED!

Postby Darkblood » Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:43 pm

Well as some read in the ride report yesterdays ride resulted in the clutch refusing to disengage. Farted around with it for a while yesterday only to decide to have it towed home. Well later in the day I got a call back from VTCycles and he had a possible solution to the issue. He thought it might be the clutch release rod either coming out of the square hole in the pressure plate or the square end snapping off and suggested I pull it out and check. Well at 8:00 a.m. this morning at 16 degrees F I headed out to do that very thing.
Dressed in several layers to try to keep hypothermia at bay out I went.
May the surgery begin.
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Ok I had read the process on BillyG's site and wasn't looking forward to pulling the trans out be he said you could do it in the bike, with the FD and rear tire and battery removed.
Lets see what we can accomplish with as few parts coming out as possible.
Side cover and coil out of the way.
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Air box out of the way....have I said before how much I hate that thing. :x
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Carb off and starter out of the way.....starting to build a pile of crap.
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Don't ask about the drill it was not a nice morning and I still have to finish drilling that bolt out and replacing it. Frigging allen bolt on the seat plate stripped making it a round bolt. Will be drilling it out and using a hex head in its place.
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Speedometer cable undone, clutch cables removed, clutch release arm removed....we're getting there
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Now it says on MYURAL that the fd & rear tire need to be removed to do the next part.....but if you take your time it can be done with both still in place.
See the fd and tire are still on it.
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Might be easier if the donut was out of the way as it's a tight fit past the swing arm but if you take it apart as you take it out it will clear. Managed to get the whole thing out and guess what. the clutch release rod is fine nice square end no mushrooming at all. (CRAP)
Image
Well maybe it just wasn't seated right and if I put it back and be careful to make sure the square end is in the square hole of the pushplate it will work....hope hope hope...
Well it only took me an hour and a half to put everything back together and guess what?

It's still Phucked. The plunger at the back of the tranny just doesn't come out and there is no way to make it go in any further as it's bottomed out so with no movement I got no clutch. My guess at this point is something let loose inside the pack like maybe a spring or two. I'm cold. I'm tired. The bike is under warranty and I'm done farting around with it. It's going back to Bill to be fixed. Either that or I'm seriously tempted to look into the lemon law in Maine as this is starting to get ridiculous.
500 km's valve cover gasket blow out coating me in oil.
1500 km's sump gasket blew out coating me in oil
2000 km's valve adjusting nut comes off and flies around inside the valve cover.
6000 km's compliance fitting disintegrates and is replaced at my cost to get a better one.
9700 km's bearing race comes apart inside the engine.
10,012 km's clutch ceases to function.
Did I buy a Ural or an AMC era Harley?
In 2 days I will have had the bike for a Year. It's been down 2 1/2 months and counting at this point.
Last edited by Darkblood on Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 4 Hours in the snow to find out it's PHUCKED

Postby Albuquralque » Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:24 pm

Nicely documented! Sorry it wasn't the clutch activation rod. (Not sure how many times someone has had it break). Keep your spirits up.....it's a Ural!!! :cheers:
Last edited by Albuquralque on Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 4 Hours in the snow to find out it's PHUCKED

Postby URAL CT » Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:33 pm

Dunno...Darkblood...but looks like the yoke or finger from the tranny to the donut looks skewed. Something may have loosened up inside the tranny, just a long shot, looking at the pic. My understanding is that the donut should be the one moving in/out of the yoke & the yoke should be rotating straight & not wobbling. My 2 cents FWIW. Good luck.
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Re: 4 Hours in the snow to find out it's PHUCKED

Postby eeyore » Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:41 pm

Darkblood. sorry to hear that you are having problems, good thing is its still under warrenty.
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Re: 4 Hours in the snow to find out it's PHUCKED

Postby Darkblood » Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:07 pm

URAL CT wrote:Dunno...Darkblood...but looks like the yoke or finger from the tranny to the donut looks skewed. Something may have loosened up inside the tranny, just a long shot, looking at the pic. My understanding is that the donut should be the one moving in/out of the yoke & the yoke should be rotating straight & not wobbling. My 2 cents FWIW. Good luck.


It was skewed but that's because I had the bike up an a jack and the rear shocks removed to get as much droop as possible to give me that last 1/16" of clearance I needed to snake the rod out. I also had pried the rubber donut back away from the yoke a tad. Like I said it was a really tight fit and I thought I was going to have to take the FD off just before it came out.
I'm guessing something came loose inside the clutch pack as was just all apart. It's acting like the pressure plate is in the position to disengage the clutch but isn't doing it. Still trying to figure out what it is but I'll be damned if I'm taking the tranny out of the bike in a cold snow covered parking lot while it's still under warranty.

I keep looking at how this whole thing is supposed to work and for the life of me can't figure out what could have shifted toward the front of the bike to cause the clutch to be engaged when everything shows that the pressure plate should be pushed away from the pack disengaging it. From what it looks like the entire clutch assembly would have had to shift forward toward the flywheel enough to keep the clutch engaged with the pressure plate in the furthest forward position. The plunger is bottomed out. the release arm will not go any further forward and thus the pressure plate "Should" be off the drive plates and it should be disengaged. so here is my question to the collective.
What the hell could be keeping it engaged? If the springs behind the pressure plate gave out it should fail in the disengaged position and have no resistance on the clutch release arm) which is what I have. there is no pressure on the plunger to return to the engaged position yet the clutch is engaged? Bear in mind that this was a catastrophic failure no warning of weakness/grinding/nor slipping it was one minute it was fine the next nothing. It acted like a cable broke which is what I thought initially but the cables are fine and no amount of adjustment will do a damn thing. :?
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Re: 4 Hours in the snow to find out it's PHUCKED

Postby URAL CT » Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:14 pm

I believe there is front & rear positioning of the clutch pack. If some were installed improperly then there would be a problem. I was told the some dealers make this mistake sometimes. BillyG's document I think shows this. Just a thunk!
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Re: 4 Hours in the snow to find out it's PHUCKED

Postby Darkblood » Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:17 pm

URAL CT wrote:I believe there is front & rear positioning of the clutch pack. If some were installed improperly then there would be a problem. I was told the some dealers make this mistake sometimes. BillyG's document I think shows this. Just a thunk!



Makes me wonder if it was put together wrong at the factory since I doubt Bill had it apart and I don't see him putting it in backwards. ALso that should result in a problem from the get go not 300 miles later...right?
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Re: 4 Hours in the snow to find out it's PHUCKED

Postby Darkblood » Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:31 pm

Hum just shooting in the dark here but is it possible that water got into the clutch pack area and turned to ice causing the plates to stick together as well as push the push plate toward the front of the bike making it seem as though the clutch should be disengaged but the ice building up is spanning the distance?
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Re: 4 Hours in the snow to find out it's PHUCKED

Postby Doppelgaenger » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:40 pm

that sounds like a good idea... try warming it up somehow? maybe some hot water or steam on it, but I can't see anything freezing together while you were riding, unless it was super super cold

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Re: 4 Hours in the snow to find out it's PHUCKED

Postby Darkblood » Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:26 pm

Just had another thought. the release rod is 2 pieces where one piece fits into the second. I can remember back in the summer I thought it occasionally dragged when idling in neutral as there was a squeaking/warbling sound until I pulled the clutch handle in and let it out again.
So if the rod was just slightly shorter then it was supposed to be upon manufacturing...not saying the Russians didn't use a ruler but you never know. and there was a slight hang up in the two pieces to make it act like it was long enough. When things kind of worked themselves into place it could have slipped further into the first piece thus shortening the rod assembly just enough to not actuate the pressure plate, which would explain catastrophic failure and the fact that the plunger shows that it should be disengaging the plates.
So someone out there with a 2010 model let me know if your clutch release lever and cable contacts the speedometer cable when you pull the lever in. Mine always has and if yours has space I think I might have figured it out and that rod just isn't long enough.
2009_fig_11.jpg

What I'm thinking is that if part 6 in the above picture was a little too short but was hanging up where it slips into part 5 then it might act long enough until part 6 slipped further into part 5 thus making it too short and not doing what it is supposed to do. Now I wish I measured it when I had it out of the bike.
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Re: 4 Hours in the snow to find out it's PHUCKED

Postby Albuquralque » Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:33 pm

Do you still have the parts out? Have you taken a good look at part #5 and #6 (the ends that mate together? Are they mating properly? Did something possibly happen to the round end of #6 or the cup area of #5 that the rod goes into? One other thought, do you have all the pieces? For instance, what would happen in #4 was missing?
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Re: 4 Hours in the snow to find out it's PHUCKED

Postby Darkblood » Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:52 pm

Sadly all the pieces are back in the bike. #6 and #5 fit together but they seemed to have a couple burrs and it was stiff going on. When I first put it together it seemed as though it was going to work since the plunger was further out than when I started but upon pulling the clutch lever the went in and stayed there....I'm really starting to suspect that the issue might be there. The round end of #5 has a couple washers and a phillips screw so it's doesn't look exactly like all the parts I've seen in my research which leads me to suspect that there might be an issue that makes my rod a we bit to short.....yup you can all start laughing now...I'm hoping Billy G will see this post and possibly throw some sage advice at it.
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Re: 4 Hours in the snow to find out it's PHUCKED

Postby cdscoot » Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:26 pm

Darkblood wrote:Sadly all the pieces are back in the bike. #6 and #5 fit together but they seemed to have a couple burrs and it was stiff going on. When I first put it together it seemed as though it was going to work since the plunger was further out than when I started but upon pulling the clutch lever the went in and stayed there....I'm really starting to suspect that the issue might be there. The round end of #5 has a couple washers and a phillips screw so it's doesn't look exactly like all the parts I've seen in my research which leads me to suspect that there might be an issue that makes my rod a we bit to short.....yup you can all start laughing now...I'm hoping Billy G will see this post and possibly throw some sage advice at it.

Well at least you didn't throw your rod! :lol: :lol: Man you just must be hard on that little motorcycle! I know - I'm no help!
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Re: 4 Hours in the snow to find out it's PHUCKED

Postby Albuquralque » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:21 pm

cdscoot wrote:
Darkblood wrote:Sadly all the pieces are back in the bike. #6 and #5 fit together but they seemed to have a couple burrs and it was stiff going on. When I first put it together it seemed as though it was going to work since the plunger was further out than when I started but upon pulling the clutch lever the went in and stayed there....I'm really starting to suspect that the issue might be there. The round end of #5 has a couple washers and a phillips screw so it's doesn't look exactly like all the parts I've seen in my research which leads me to suspect that there might be an issue that makes my rod a we bit to short.....yup you can all start laughing now...I'm hoping Billy G will see this post and possibly throw some sage advice at it.

Well at least you didn't throw your rod! :lol: :lol: Man you just must be hard on that little motorcycle! I know - I'm no help!



He didn't throw his rod because it was a wee bit too short!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: 4 Hours in the snow to find out it's PHUCKED

Postby S 854 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:09 pm

Looking at your pictures, the clutch actuating lever (part #2 in the above diagram) appears to be resting too far forward... mine, with the hand clutch lever out, the actuating lever is 'resting' above the donut... when I pull the clutch lever, the actuating lever still is above the donut.... is it possible the actuating lever has been bent, that way it wouldn't put enough pressure on the plunger to disengage the clutch?

Also, my plunger sits about 1/4" out (at rest) and is pushed almost flush with the case when I pull the clutch lever... where does your plunger come to rest?

Your third picture from the bottom, where the actuating lever has been removed... is the plunger still in place? If so, it's too far in...
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