Repairing a 1996 Full Time 2wd Differential

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mash3d
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Repairing a 1996 Full Time 2wd Differential

Postby mash3d » Sat Jun 18, 2011 7:07 pm

So now that I have the bike I'm starting into doing the repairs.
First is fixing the differential.
I know I could just replace it with a new one but I wanted to see what went wrong with the old one first.
May be fixing it is cheaper.
So below are pictures of all the steps I took in order with highlights
(this is mostly for me so I know how to put it back together.

My main questions are:
Where could the ball bearings have come from?
Are there any bearings inside the gear driven hub?
The Gear hub was brand new as of February.
I also found 3 small mangled springs that I guess were holding a seal in place.
Not any more.
There was also a lot of little flakes of brass.
I assume that was from the now missing brass washer.

I'd like to thank Dom C. For posting pictures of his disassembly as a guide.
https://picasaweb.google.com/1039368628 ... blyRecord#

Any ideas or tips I would appreciate
thanks
mash

Image
001_Final_Drive_Disassembly by michael32766, on Flickr


Image
002_Final_Drive_Disassembly by michael32766, on Flickr

Image
003_Drive_case by michael32766, on Flickr

Image
004_Final_Drive_case by michael32766, on Flickr

Image
005_Remove_Spacer_Tube by michael32766, on Flickr

Image
006_Remove_gear_hub by michael32766, on Flickr

Image
007_Races for_needle_bearings by michael32766, on Flickr

Image
008_missing_brass_thrust_washer by michael32766, on Flickr

Image
009_remove_Small_ring by michael32766, on Flickr

Image
010_remove_main_Ring_gear by michael32766, on Flickr

Image
011_38_needle_bearings by michael32766, on Flickr

Image
012_2wd_disassembly_4_screws by michael32766, on Flickr

Image
013_Remove_Circle_Clip by michael32766, on Flickr

Image
014_Lift_off_bearing_assembly by michael32766, on Flickr

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015_Lift_off_Spider_gears by michael32766, on Flickr

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016_remove_Splined_gear_hub by michael32766, on Flickr

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017_removed_Splined_gear_hub by michael32766, on Flickr

Image
018_remove_locking_cover by michael32766, on Flickr

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019_remove_brass_locking_ring by michael32766, on Flickr

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020_removing_brass_locking_ring by michael32766, on Flickr

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021_removing_Spider_bearings by michael32766, on Flickr

Image
022_Spider_housing_bearings by michael32766, on Flickr

Image
023_Sun_type_gear_end_A by michael32766, on Flickr

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024_Sun_type_gear_end_B by michael32766, on Flickr

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032_bearings_Sun_type_gear by michael32766, on Flickr

Image
025_Epicyclical_gear_end_A by michael32766, on Flickr

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026_Epicyclical_gear_end_B by michael32766, on Flickr

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027_Epicyclical_gear_End_C by michael32766, on Flickr

Image
028_Spider_gear_housing by michael32766, on Flickr

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029_Bearing_113 by michael32766, on Flickr
Image
030_Final_Drive_Gear_Assembly_A by michael32766, on Flickr

Image
031_Final_Drive_Gear_Assembly_B by michael32766, on Flickr

Note I took off the half moon bolts by accident. Put them back on for the photo
so they may not be lined up right.

Image
033_Spring_ by michael32766, on Flickr

No idea but I found a few mangled ones like this inside the FD case

Image
034_prop_Shaft_gear_ by michael32766, on Flickr

Image
035_prop_Shaft_end by michael32766, on Flickr
Last edited by mash3d on Sun Jun 19, 2011 2:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.
1996 Sportsman/750 Engine
Why Wait? buy it broke :)

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Re: Repairing a 1998 Full Time 2wd Differential

Postby BillyG » Sat Jun 18, 2011 7:57 pm

New one, ha, ha. Cheap, ha, ha, ho, ho. Sportsman parts...ya find them on the shelf right next to the hen's teeth. Nice tear down, haven't peered into one of those in a while.

Good luck.
Bill Glaser
2002 Ural Patrol "CYKA"
300,000 km's since May 1st 2002
The "Unofficial Ural Service Manual" can be viewed at: http://www.myural.com

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Re: Repairing a 1998 Full Time 2wd Differential

Postby mash3d » Sat Jun 18, 2011 8:32 pm

by a new one a meant a modern switchable 2wd. I can get one of those, not cheap but at least I can find one.
1996 Sportsman/750 Engine
Why Wait? buy it broke :)

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Re: Repairing a 1998 Full Time 2wd Differential

Postby co_g30 » Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:52 pm

Mash, you did a great job recording your disassembly of the FD.

The springs are a mystery to me as I don't recall seeing any when I did this.

the brass bits I am sure are the missing thrust washer. there wasn't much left of it when I took the FD apart.

Did you check the bearings in the wheel hub?

How were the "teeth" on the driven gear hub that I replaced?

dom
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Re: Repairing a 1998 Full Time 2wd Differential

Postby billtrek » Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:15 am

Call Gene at Holopaw. He has some parts for the Sportsman's drive.
Bill
1998 Ural Sportsman, Power Arc Ignition, Denso Alternator, R75 Muffler, 07 Front disc, Hagon shocks
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Re: Repairing a 1998 Full Time 2wd Differential

Postby mash3d » Sun Jun 19, 2011 2:09 pm

Small correction this is a 1996 ural, with 750 engine.
Dom, I added some pics of the gears. The only thing that looks a little rough is the rear part of the sun type gear.
and that's only a couple of teeth.
Everything else seems to be ok.
The bearings that I can see seem to be fine.

Bill I plan on calling gene tommorow. Just need to figure out what i have to order.
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Why Wait? buy it broke :)

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Re: Repairing a 1996 Full Time 2wd Differential

Postby co_g30 » Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:39 pm

Mash

so that's what you meant by mangled springs!

yeah, I remember some such spring, it went with the seal that seats inside the new driven gear hub or what you've got labeled in your updated pictures as "epicyclical gear", pics number 26 and 27.

so, at the very least, I'd replace that seal. That still doesn't explain the ball bearings you and I found though. :(

recommend asking Gene of Holopaw how many of that type seal there are, since you found more than one mangled spring.

dom
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Re: Repairing a 1996 Full Time 2wd Differential

Postby BillyG » Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:49 pm

Yep, all the circular springs are keepers which go on the inner, inside lip of any seal. They usually pop out due to improper installation (not using a mandrel/cone over a shaft that the inner lip slips over).

Gene was a little sparse on Sporty parts...but he's about the only game in town unless you find one laying around in someones garage...most likely in outter Uberkakmanistan :D

P.S. I never trust a mechanic that wears gloves or...God forbid...shooooooooooooooooes! :twisted:
Bill Glaser
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300,000 km's since May 1st 2002
The "Unofficial Ural Service Manual" can be viewed at: http://www.myural.com

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Re: Repairing a 1996 Full Time 2wd Differential

Postby mash3d » Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:50 pm

BillyG wrote:P.S. I never trust a mechanic that wears gloves or...God forbid...shooooooooooooooooes! :twisted:


What about underwear? :)
Unfortutanly I have to keep my place somewhat clean to get my rent deposit back.
But I am looking for a garage with attached house to move into, preferably owned by a good looking single woman,
Please send picture of garage. :)

So on installing the springs do you put the spring on the mandrel, flip the seal up over the mandrel
And then slide the spring down into place? I assume so you don't end up stretching the spring?
Thanks,
Mash
1996 Sportsman/750 Engine
Why Wait? buy it broke :)

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Re: Repairing a 1996 Full Time 2wd Differential

Postby BillyG » Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:52 pm

Whitey tighties are optional. Dickie coveralls a must. No self respecting home Russian motorcycle mechanic leaves home without'em :wink:

Nope. Spring is installed in seal out-o-the-box. Make a a mandrel/cone out of a cut, rolled piece of plastic bottle (your choice), slip the mandrel/cone down on the shaft, spray some silicone or apply thin layer of grease to mandrel/cone. Slide seal down cone over offending splines and such and lightly seat (or fully as the case may be). Hold seal, slip mandrel/cone out and seat seal. Spring should stay put. What pops the spring out of its lip is the inner seal rolling over (no lube) or any rough surface (splines) catching lip or spring allowing/forcing it out of its groove in the seal. Just stick it back in (a little grease on four corners will help hold it in the seal if popping out is a problem) and try again.

Some springs are loose fitting and the spring can be "unscrewed" (look closely and you can see where the two ends meet) and the large end (not the end that screws/fits inside the other) can be trimmed by a couple of coils to tighten it. I do not recommend you do this except in an emergency (1,000 miles from anywhere...in a desert...with cannibals closing in and or buzzards circling) as you can bugger the spring or make the lip/inner seal too tight causing premature failure. Always grease the inner lip of new seals to help them bed-in on the spinning shaft.

Your spring goes inside the seal in pic 26...drops in...fits in a groove around the inner dia.

See my sight below for pictures of how to install this type of seal with a home made mandrel.
Bill Glaser
2002 Ural Patrol "CYKA"
300,000 km's since May 1st 2002
The "Unofficial Ural Service Manual" can be viewed at: http://www.myural.com

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Re: Repairing a 1996 Full Time 2wd Differential

Postby mash3d » Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:51 am

Thanks for the info Bill
I'm being unusually dense this morning and I can't find the pictures your referring to on your site.
What chapter, or section are they in?
Thanks
1996 Sportsman/750 Engine
Why Wait? buy it broke :)

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Re: Repairing a 1996 Full Time 2wd Differential

Postby BillyG » Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:30 am

Ummm...try chapter 7, section 7.7(j)...I think...maybe...but don't bet on it!
Bill Glaser
2002 Ural Patrol "CYKA"
300,000 km's since May 1st 2002
The "Unofficial Ural Service Manual" can be viewed at: http://www.myural.com

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Re: Repairing a 1996 Full Time 2wd Differential

Postby mash3d » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:34 pm

I think I found the source of the mystery bearings.
One thing I did not take out of the Final drive housing was the prop shaft.
So I started taking it apart and noticed it had a lot of play in it.

Took it out and the balls form the bearing fell out.
And they were the same size as the mystery ball bearings.
When I bought the bike Dom was nice enough to send me all the spare parts he had. Including replacement ball bearings from his previous build. I took a look at them and notice the ball bearings there were a Double row set.
Checked the parts diagram and it was item 19-34 Part # N72052-2 ball radial -Thrust Double row

So the old bearing was missing an entire row of bearings and the, what looks like brass, housing for them.
I think the bearing fell apart and got chewed up by the prop shaft.
Which explains the balls and brass flakes all over the place.

Image
036_bad_prop_Shaft_bearing by michael32766, on Flickr

I also notice the u-joint shaft was stiff in one direction. Not sure if it's supposed to be like that or not.
If not that may be what casued the failure of the bearing.

On the old bearing the inside housing was made of brass. On the new one it looks like polymer or something.
it's the off tan color on the new bearing. Is that right?

I'm thinking about replacing the prop shaft U-joint. Is there a better after market one that will work? that has a zerk fitting. Or should I just order the stock ural one?

Once I have that and a few other parts I'll start putting it back together.
thanks
mash
1996 Sportsman/750 Engine
Why Wait? buy it broke :)

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Re: Repairing a 1996 Full Time 2wd Differential

Postby mash3d » Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:37 pm

Ok I got most of the parts I need. I forgot to order the gear driven hub thrust washer, Splined gear hub thrust washer,
and Rubber Collar seal.
So I have to call Gene back on Monday and order those.
Before I do a few questions have come up.
if any one can help answer them I'd appreciate it.
Take a look at the pictures and the questions below them

Image
031_Final_Drive_Gear_Assembly_B by michael32766, on Flickr

These bolts are starting to round off. I'd like to replace them but I've read that they are grade M8 bolts and could be replaced with better Grade M10 bolts. Does anyone know a source and part number and size for them?

Image
027_Epicyclical_gear_End_C by michael32766, on Flickr

Any idea how to get the middle black seal out and replace it?
Does the silver ring come off?
Also there is a lose tube inside, Is there anything else that goes inside? Just wondering if anything came lose or if it's supposed to be like that?

now on the next question I screwed up and forgot to take photos when I took this part off.
Now I can't remember which way the seal goes?
Does the middle black seal go in.....

Direction A?
Image
037_Seal_Direction_A by michael32766, on Flickr


Or Direction B?
Image
037_Seal_Direction_B by michael32766, on Flickr#

Thanks,
Mash
1996 Sportsman/750 Engine
Why Wait? buy it broke :)

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JPanyon
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Re: Repairing a 1996 Full Time 2wd Differential

Postby JPanyon » Sun Jun 26, 2011 12:59 am

The seal's center surface appears to have a beveled lip. If so, and it matches the beveled surface of the lip in the hub opening, I'd say "B" is the answer.
Just a guess.

Best Wishes
John Panyon
John Panyon,,,Biking since 1961 on wheels left behind but never forgotten
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