Piston Ring Install Problems (Fixed)

Are ya having a problem with your rig? We'll try to help. Share your tech tips and experiences here. Dr. Billy Glaser, author of the "Unofficial 750 Ural Service Manual" site myural.com, is moderating this section.
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T-Bear
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Piston Ring Install Problems (Fixed)

Postby T-Bear » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:33 pm

2008 Gear-Up. "A" size cylinders and pistons.

Long story on why I'm doing my repairs.

Pistons already installed onto rods.

Using fingers only to compress rings.

Trying to install pistons into cylinder with new rings. Upper & lower compression rings go in with a little effort using the myural.com method.

Problem comes with the lower thin oil ring and wave ring. The top thin oil ring I can get in, but then the wave and lower thin oil ring bind and it is near impossible to get it compressed and in.

I thought I had it in and tried to press cylinder but it bound. Pulled the cylinder and found that the lower oil ring "jumped" the groove and got bent. :x :roll:

Any tips? Damn tight quarters with my hands to get those last three rings compressed.

Should I go ahead and bite the bullet and remove pistons from rods (what a pain to get the wrist pins back in - the improvised rod tool did not work and had to use a socket to tap/lightly hammer them back in)?

Any compression tool I could use.

Thanks fellas - my dogs are pi$$ed their ride has been down to long.
Last edited by T-Bear on Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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wooden nickel
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Re: Piston Ring Install Problems - Tips?

Postby wooden nickel » Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:04 pm

I used a large screw type hose clamp. There are specific ring band clamps for cylinders installed over pistons but I'm too cheap.
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T-Bear
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Re: Piston Ring Install Problems - Tips?

Postby T-Bear » Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:15 pm

wooden nickel wrote:I used a large screw type hose clamp. There are specific ring band clamps for cylinders installed over pistons but I'm too cheap.



Thanks Nick. Could you give me a more detailed explanation of how you used the hose clamp.

I'm pretty sure what you mean - tighten enough to get it compressed but loose enough to allow the piston to slide?
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Re: Piston Ring Install Problems - Tips?

Postby Snakeoil » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:16 pm

Before you do anything, you should install the rings into the cylinders and check the end gap. If the oil rings are tight, that could be the problem. And if they are tight, you might have tight end gaps and that might cause problems in an engine after it warms up.

Once you establish that you have the proper end gaps, a hose clamp will work, but I'm not a big fan of using one alone due to the possibility of the nut area scoring the piston. An old trick is to cut up a beer or soda can and wrap that around the ring and then put the hose clamp around that. You only have to tigten the clamp so that the rings are evenly compressed and can start into the chamfer at the bottom of spigot. You should not install the piston/rings into the jug without the piston mounted to the rod. Too easy to screw up installation of the circlip.
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Re: Piston Ring Install Problems - Tips?

Postby T-Bear » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:03 pm

Snakeoil wrote:Before you do anything, you should install the rings into the cylinders and check the end gap. If the oil rings are tight, that could be the problem. And if they are tight, you might have tight end gaps and that might cause problems in an engine after it warms up.

Once you establish that you have the proper end gaps, a hose clamp will work, but I'm not a big fan of using one alone due to the possibility of the nut area scoring the piston. An old trick is to cut up a beer or soda can and wrap that around the ring and then put the hose clamp around that. You only have to tigten the clamp so that the rings are evenly compressed and can start into the chamfer at the bottom of spigot. You should not install the piston/rings into the jug without the piston mounted to the rod. Too easy to screw up installation of the circlip.


Thank you very much Snake.

Sorry to be dense about this, but I am...

Can you lead me in the right direction regarding "establishing the proper end gaps"?

I don't know what this means. I'll research on my own, but I sure would appreciate an Ural specific advice you could give.

Thank you VERY much. My dogs appreciate it! :D
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Re: Piston Ring Install Problems - Tips?

Postby Snakeoil » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:21 pm

Sorry, I don't have the specs for 750 engines. But somebody here should. I'm pretty sure there is a manual link here as well. I've never looked for it. Not sure where it is posted. I have a 650 and a hard copy manual.

It is standard piston ring fitting procedure. Manual should address it. You put each ring into the bore from the bottom and push it in about 1 inch or so with the piston as the pusher to assure it is square in the bore. Then with a feeler gauge you measure the end gap between the two ends of the ring. There is normally a minimum and maximum gap. Too little and the rings will expand and bind on the bore. Too much and you will leak combustion gasses.
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Rob
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Re: Piston Ring Install Problems - Tips?

Postby wooden nickel » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:52 pm

T Bear,
It has been awhile but I believe the bottom of the cylinders have a taper. I know I didn't have to tighten the clamp all of the way down.
I may not be good, but I'm slow.
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Re: Piston Ring Install Problems - Tips?

Postby wooden nickel » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:59 pm

Maybe the best way would be a hybrid of both methods described. Use a thick enough band that it won't get sucked into the cylinder with the piston and clamp it with a hose clamp. Just pipe dreaming but I would think a strip of lexan that had been heated and formed around a piston would be good. I have been wrong many times though. :oops:
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Re: Piston Ring Install Problems - Tips?

Postby hotflash44 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:32 am

T-Bear,as to the ring end gap insert one of the old rings into the cylinder at top and bottom measure the gap and then check the new rings. make sure the piston ring slots are clean with no burrs. cant think of any reason it wont go into the cylinder,good luck. :cheers:
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Re: Piston Ring Install Problems - Tips?

Postby rougaroo » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:59 am

this is one that's commonly used on VWs. You use it with snap ring pliers to compress the rings, then slide the cylinder home. You could easily make one out of a can or thin stock, too.
D3F75D4F-E818-4BFE-946F-8F0194123F69.jpeg


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Re: Piston Ring Install Problems - Tips?

Postby jaybird » Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:53 pm

I agree with the advice of checking end gap, I always fit each piston and check the ring end gap when rebuilding engines, it's part of the process, and you can't trust that things fit right out of the package. I would also check to make sure you have the three piece oil control ring assembled properly, I've done pistons and rings on my Urals plenty of times and when everything is right you just squeeze the rings with your fingers and wiggle the piston and cylinder a little while pushing together and bloop it just goes together. I've never used a ring compressor on my Urals, and I'd say if you have to force it something isn't right.

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Re: Piston Ring Install Problems - Tips?

Postby T-Bear » Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:21 pm

Thanks guys for the advice. I see now what my problem was. No way that was going to be a successful piston install with just my fingers.

Spoke to Terry Crawford this morning to order replacement rings and he spent time giving me advice and shared the tool and method he used. Thanks Terry! (Btw Terry, K-D Tools has now been rebranded as GearWrench).

I'm going to order the following tool to hopefully give me the proper assistance I need. Small price to pay for me doing it right and feeling confident about my repairs...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002STSMG/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

Better picture.

Image

I'll keep you all posted. Hopefully I'll post this :cheers: instead of this :roll: .
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rivers
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Re: Piston Ring Install Problems - Tips?

Postby rivers » Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:27 pm

Curious, new or old pistons? If old, did you "thoroughly" clean out the lands?
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Re: Piston Ring Install Problems - Tips?

Postby T-Bear » Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:09 pm

Hey Rivers, I forgot to post that information...

Original pistons with about 30,000 km.

They were heavily carboned.

Chemical dipped and cleaned to like new. Ring lands were thoroughly cleaned out and scraped with an old broken compression ring. No carbon at all in the lands.
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Re: Piston Ring Install Problems - Tips?

Postby MonkeysUncle » Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:10 pm

I can't figure out how to add the link but, you might take a look at Gobium's post in the 'Videos & Best of how to posts'.
'Installing pistons and cylinders' , posted Feb 14, 2017.
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