Carb Question

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BigSky
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Carb Question

Postby BigSky » Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:24 am

Just bought a 08 gear up, and running real rough, especially on the right jug, popping and barking. Figured just a dirty right carb. So removed the carb drained the bowl, and opened it up. Clean as new, bike only has 2400 Km. Here is the thing the air/fuel screw is set on both carbs to 31/4 turns out, and yeah I know that it should be 1 1/2 out. Additionally it has aftermarket cans, and both the plugs are quite black (lean condition?). Also the right side carb almost fell off on the cylinder side when I loosened the clamp. Thoughts>
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biker
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Re: Carb Question

Postby biker » Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:28 am

The engine needs to be fully warmed up otherwise it is not uncommon to get some popping. In other words you should wait till you can put your hand on the valve cover and feel some warmth. I have two 08 Patrols. It sounds like your mixture setting is way too rich especially if your 3 1/4 turns out. The plug electrode should be a light coffee brown in color. :) You also have to keep in mind that the rig only has 2,400 KM's on it and that engine is not fully broken in.
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Last edited by biker on Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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rivers
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Re: Carb Question

Postby rivers » Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:33 am

Appears someone tried to tune out a lean condition with the mix screws. Black plugs are an overly"rich" condition not lean. The sportster cans in your pic shouldn't require rejetting for a new lean condition. A loose carb will most definitely cause a lean condition on that side. I'd suspect that's why the PO went gonzo with the mix screws to 3 1/4 turns. Normally if everything is in stock spec and you have to open the idle mix screws that much is a dead give away you need bigger pilot jets but with black plugs you're not running lean at the moment anyway. While you've got the carb off check what pilot and main jets are installed. As crappy as that motor is tuned I wouldn't be surprised at any nonsense the PO has done. Double check everything. Then set your valves, Set your correctly jetted carbs idle screws back to 1 1/2 turns as a base line for later tuning. It'll start/run at 1 1/2. Put new plugs in it and check integrity and timing of the ign system. Once "sure" valves and ign are in spec final tune the carbs (on a warmed up motor). If no other issues you should be at least running good. If not, start trouble shooting from step 1 and get back to us. Most crap running used bikes aren't serious probs or the manufacturers fault. Generally just the PO's lame maint or improvements. In your pic the mufflers look like stock Sportster cans and so long as they're not gutted they won't be a tuning issue. Get it tuned up to stock specs (in order: valves, ign, carbs) and see where you're at. Used bikes are always a WTF adventure. Doan'cha just love PO's An 08 should be a good Ural once sorted. :thumbsup:
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014 GU
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chaos2
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Re: Carb Question

Postby chaos2 » Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:06 am

The rubber compliance fitting between the carb and head should be checked for cracks, one or both could be bad. And check the air cleaner, they're notorious for plugging up even with that low of mileage
past afflictions include TR motocars and bikes, R60/2 & a R65, MGs, and a Citroen.
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Re: Carb Question

Postby BigSky » Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:32 am

All excellent suggestions. So I will stop and pick up a couple new plugs, return the mix jet to 1.5 turns, give the carb boots a good visual inspection and check the air box for obstructions/flow. I have the original cans, but what I am hearing is that the sportster cans should have about the same back pressure. They do not sound as if the baffles were removed. I only have the right carb off at the moment, pulled the bowl cover, but did not remove anything as it was really clean. All the jets were in place and did not appear to ever have been messed with. Will have to read up on how to set the valves. Thanks again, really confirms my thought process.
If history repeats itself....I am sooo getting a dinosaur.

'08 Gear Up :cheers: "VooDoo"
Old Friends:
Kawasaki 650, Kawasaki ZR7, Kawasaki KLR, Aprillia CapoNord, Suzuki Burgman

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Lokiboy
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Re: Carb Question

Postby Lokiboy » Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:21 pm

Taken from a post by Mr. Cob "Ural’s Keihin OEM factory carbs have an "idle fuel" screw, e.g. CW/IN rich, CCW/OUT lean."

Therefore, your pilot jet is way too big. The stock is 40 for the pilot jet, what does yours have? If larger, put stock jets back in. The range of coverage of the pilot, both in temps and altitude variations, should not reqire them to be swapped out.

Lots of good reading here: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=28897
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Re: Carb Question

Postby rivers » Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:22 pm

BigSky wrote: only have the right carb off at the moment, pulled the bowl cover, but did not remove anything as it was really clean. All the jets were in place and did not appear to ever have been messed with.
Don't assume anything. Read the numbers on the jets. Don't know 08 factory specs but the mains should be in the 125-130 range and pilots around 38-40. Don't mess with the starting jets, ever. They're about 60-65 or so and other than cleaning they never get swapped/changed. Also inspect the jetting in "both carbs. Again ya never know what's been done by the PO. If the carbs aren't jetted the same you'll never get it to run correctly. Sounds like you just need a good thorough tune-up to get everything playing nice together again. Billy G's myural.com web site will walk you through the procedures (with pics) . On an 08 I would plan on getting new compliance fittings just on principle. Also get a couple of the heat isolator gaskets. Worth the extra few dollars, they'll keep your new expensive comp fittings alive longer.
These Russian mistresses like foreplay... play along with a little easy fondling time and you'll be zooming down the road with a grin.
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BigSky
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Re: Carb Question

Postby BigSky » Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:22 pm

Making headway, pulled the carb jets and the main was 125 and the pilots were 40, set the mix pilot for 1.5 out. Started her up and idles good (warm) but was still stumbling, so changed out the plugs with a new set of Champion equivs, triple checked size and match, don't need no piston damage. Runs much better, not great but much less popping and stumbling, still not as smooth response, but drive able. I will put in some fresh gas and maybe that will be the magic bullet. Haven't check the valves yet. :roll:
If history repeats itself....I am sooo getting a dinosaur.

'08 Gear Up :cheers: "VooDoo"
Old Friends:
Kawasaki 650, Kawasaki ZR7, Kawasaki KLR, Aprillia CapoNord, Suzuki Burgman

rivers
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Re: Carb Question

Postby rivers » Thu Feb 11, 2016 3:33 pm

Progress is good. :thumbsup: Keep at it. Jetting sounds reasonable for a stock 08. Now build you a DIY manometer to sync the carbs at idle. Cheap-n-easy tool <$10.
Joe
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"I'm lost but I'm making good time."

stagewex
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Re: Carb Question

Postby stagewex » Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:02 pm

stock is or should be 125 main and 38 pilot. That's pretty lean out of the factory.
I changed to 130 mains and 45 pilots and never looked back. I also have 2 shims in the needles. The only time it may pop or fart is if I don't let it warm up a bit when its really cold out.

Check for air leaks around you compliance fittings. Do you have the old style or new stele branch tubes?
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BigSky
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Re: Carb Question

Postby BigSky » Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:30 pm

I have old style Compliance fittings, and am going to visit the closest dealer this weekend and see if he stocks. Looking to get a bench seat too, just to tall for the tractor. I live at 3500 ft, so maybe going to 130/45 makes sense. I'll do a search on building a Manometer. Going to wait till warmer weather to check the valves.
If history repeats itself....I am sooo getting a dinosaur.

'08 Gear Up :cheers: "VooDoo"
Old Friends:
Kawasaki 650, Kawasaki ZR7, Kawasaki KLR, Aprillia CapoNord, Suzuki Burgman

rivers
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Re: Carb Question

Postby rivers » Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:43 pm

BigSky, agree your jetting is EPA lean but once you finish your complete basic tune-up with what you got I highly recommend don't yet start making modifications mid-stream while getting'er to stock decent running condition. There be hard rocks down river. :( Once happy research modifications.
Don't out think things/skip steps. Basics are primary, mods are secondary. You're getting closer, keep working the plan.
Joe
014 GU
"I'm lost but I'm making good time."

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chaos2
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Re: Carb Question

Postby chaos2 » Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:09 pm

Every bike is different, mine ran rich with 42 pilots, even with opened up pipes and intake. I'd ride it, go up a size or 2 with the mains or add a shim, then ride out another tank or so and then see if it still needs tweaking. Just make one change at a time so it will be easy to fix any screw ups. Also a good idea to check the float levels, mine were a couple mm different and off from the factory.
past afflictions include TR motocars and bikes, R60/2 & a R65, MGs, and a Citroen.
Now a 2012 FF GU and an 87 K75s
dual K&N cones on PVC intake, 40/137.5
Raceway needles
Modtop exhaust
$29 VW Hydraulic steering dampener

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BigSky
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Re: Carb Question

Postby BigSky » Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:11 am

Thanks Rivers & Chaos2 for the advice 8) , going to balance the carbs and run 2-3 tanks thru her, don't think this engine is broken in quite yet.
If history repeats itself....I am sooo getting a dinosaur.

'08 Gear Up :cheers: "VooDoo"
Old Friends:
Kawasaki 650, Kawasaki ZR7, Kawasaki KLR, Aprillia CapoNord, Suzuki Burgman

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Re: Carb Question

Postby WEGUNTER » Fri Feb 12, 2016 5:05 am

don't wait to check the valves. real important during break in.


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