Different Ural models

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Dave1066
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Different Ural models

Postby Dave1066 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:15 pm

Hi everyone,

I haven't properly introduces myself yet, I'm Dave, I've been a biker for 11 years. I've owned various bikes of various vintage. I've been a lurker here for years, and been reading various threads here.

So I've decided I'm going to get a Ural, I quite like the look of the Tourist, and the Retro. The one difference I notice with the Retro is that, is has normal telescopic forks, which I have heard that isn't as great at handling compared to a leading link front fork ( Earls fork ) , which is the difference between the Tourist and Retro.

So I'm looking for opinions on these two models, and from anyone with a sidecar outfit with telescopic front forks.

Dave
Dorset, UK.

2006 Ural Gear Up.
2004 Royal Enfield Trials.
1971 BSA A65 Lightning.

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wooden nickel
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Re: Different Ural models

Postby wooden nickel » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:23 pm

I've had both and the biggest difference I notice is that my Retro M70 dives on braking, The Tourist didn't. The M70 will out corner the Tourist. This may be from the lower center of gravity form the 18" wheels and different frame.
I may not be good, but I'm slow.
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2014 M70 Retros, the sports car of Urals.

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TerryG
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Re: Different Ural models

Postby TerryG » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:31 pm

The Retro will be slightly heavier steering at very low speeds, but will be more stable handling at all faster speeds. Urals used to all have telescopic forks until they came to the US. There seems to be a prejudice against telescopic forks based on trying to use them inappropriatly when adding a hack to a standard street bike. Leading links are stronger for off road work. The Retro also has the hack mounted further forward which adds to stability. Basically, you should try to determine how much you are going to ride off-road. Nothing wrong with riding a Retro off-road (ask BigJames), and nothing wrong with riding a Tourist on-road. They just have their own design intent.
Terry

2011 Retro
2000 Bavarian Classic (Gone but never forgotten)

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Lee Pape
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Re: Different Ural models

Postby Lee Pape » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:37 pm

There is a big difference in the bike frame as well. The Retro's wheel base is longer, but the driver seating position is more cramped (seat sits lower). Also the Retro has 18" wheels and the Tourist has 19" wheels. The Tourist model was last made in 2014. The cT replaced the Tourist. The only major difference between the Tourist and the cT is the wheel size,the cT has 18" wheels.
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2007 Tourist "The un-named-one"
Riding and working on Urals since 2000.

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Re: Different Ural models

Postby rivers » Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:16 pm

I haven't owned either but yeah a LL will require "somewhat"less effort than an outfit with teleforks but that DOES NOT mean outfits with teleforks require more muscle to turn or handle worse or better. I've driven tele fork used Urals and full dress HD GeezerGlides with the factory tub, also a full boat Luxo Carnival Cruise line equipped Goldwing with aftermarket tub. They handled like a sidecar outfit but none were hard to drive with great muscle effort needed. I do agree for hard use, crap off pavement etc the LL's are tougher but the tele's work fine but with maybe more maint? Proper set-up, alignment IMHO is more critical than type of front end. Buy what you want and learn to live with it.
Joe
014 GU
"I'm lost but I'm making good time."

Dave1066
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Re: Different Ural models

Postby Dave1066 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:37 pm

Thanks for the detailed response guys, much appreciated. The tourist in the UK is the next model up price wise from the CT.

I really like the look of the Retro, hopefully can test ride a Retro and Tourist to get a feel for the different riding position. Or maybe try an M70 as I guess that will have a similar riding position?

Dave
Dorset, UK.

2006 Ural Gear Up.
2004 Royal Enfield Trials.
1971 BSA A65 Lightning.

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Re: Different Ural models

Postby Tomcatfixer » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:44 pm

The only major difference between the Tourist and the cT is the wheel size,the cT has 18" wheels.

...and let us not forget the new wider hack frame and resulting wider track. This, coupled with the aforementioned 18" wheels, contributes to the cT's superior handling.
- Chad

Virginia Beach, Virginia, USA

Current rides:
2015 Ural cT "Mobile Chernobyl", 1999 Ural Tourist "Desert DisGrace: the Iron (Oxide) Curtain", 1994 Honda VFR750F, 1986 Yamaha FZX700S Fazer

Previous rides:
2007 Honda VTR1000 FireStorm (Super Hawk in U.S.)
2001 Buell Blast! - - - - - - - 2005 Yamaha FJR1300
1993 Honda CBR600F2 - -1984 Yamaha FJ1100
1986 Yamaha FZX700S (a different one than above)

Dave1066
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Re: Different Ural models

Postby Dave1066 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:13 pm

So I have spoken with the main dealer for Ural in the UK. He has none in stock, because of waiting for the Euro 4 type approval. He has advised me to think very carefully about purchasing an EFI Ural, as for the servicing it must be pluged into the Ural computer to balance the injectors, and to register the service. He is 3 and 1/2 hours away from me, my closest Ural dealer is Watsonian Squire. Which is still over two hours away from me. And I've been told a full Ural service roughly takes a day to do.

So I've been advised that if I want to service it at home, to buy one of the older carburetted models.

However there was only 1 2014 Ural sold in 2014, and about 15 in 2013 and 14 in 2012.

I have found a very nice, very well kept and looked after, 2006 Ural gear up. Buts its half way up the country from me..That isn't putting my off though. I have contacted the seller, to talk about doing a deal.

Watch this space as they say.

Dave
Dorset, UK.

2006 Ural Gear Up.
2004 Royal Enfield Trials.
1971 BSA A65 Lightning.

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Re: Different Ural models

Postby Tomcatfixer » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:42 pm

He has advised me to think very carefully about purchasing an EFI Ural, as for the servicing it must be pluged into the Ural computer to balance the injectors, and to register the service.

I have a fuel injected 2015 cT and I've never had to take it in for service (some repairs, yes, but never service). If you search elsewhere on this forum, you'll see that members have figured out a way to use an On-Board Diagnostic (OBD-II) reader to gain information from the EFI computers, which allows us to perform throttle body balancing quite easily at home. Don't fear the EFI. It's not bad at all!
- Chad

Virginia Beach, Virginia, USA

Current rides:
2015 Ural cT "Mobile Chernobyl", 1999 Ural Tourist "Desert DisGrace: the Iron (Oxide) Curtain", 1994 Honda VFR750F, 1986 Yamaha FZX700S Fazer

Previous rides:
2007 Honda VTR1000 FireStorm (Super Hawk in U.S.)
2001 Buell Blast! - - - - - - - 2005 Yamaha FJR1300
1993 Honda CBR600F2 - -1984 Yamaha FJ1100
1986 Yamaha FZX700S (a different one than above)

rivers
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Re: Different Ural models

Postby rivers » Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:21 pm

FWIW, my late 014 hasn't seen a dealer since it left the showroom. Yeah the EFI computer voodoo is intimidating for us milli-micro electron computer progaming impaired (PC term for electronics dummies). Urals are Urals new or used any component can fail subject to moon/tide phase. Whether you think new Urals are fair fpriced or absurd IMHO it's still a BIG CHUNK OF MONEY. My advice for anyone who has never owned a sidecar outfit is to start with good condition "used". Not everyone even after learning enjoys piloting these odd triangles down the road. If you end up being one of those folks it will be a big money loss situation bailing out. Sure buying used does add another risk factor but at an extremely lower $$ gamble. I started out with an excellent mech condition/ well maintained used 06. Yup some sniggly issues popped up but nothing major. 06 was a good year for both owners and IMZ sales numbers. If I were you I would take the 06 you mentioned for a good shake down run and see what'cha think. If good condition and fair priced and you decide Urals just aren't for you odds are good you'll break close to even. If it turns out you fall in love, you can always upgrade to a newer model when money allows but a good 06 would be a good intro to Urals year. Granted common forum consensus (due to 07 upgrades) for used is go with 07 or later but IMHO 06 was a good year if well maintained and used correctly will deliver great fun with minimal anxiety.
Joe
014 GU
"I'm lost but I'm making good time."

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Re: Different Ural models

Postby cateyetech » Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:31 pm

Tomcatfixer wrote: Don't fear the EFI. It's not bad at all!


:lol:

Until you run out of fuel
because the low fuel is not working and have to give your bike CPR
or you break off a fuel line nipple (@ pump or throttle body)
or you have tuning issues when you want to change the exhaust system
or you burn a piston from running so lean on a air cooled engine
or you want to kick start it when it's cold outside
or ........
from what I read on Soviet Steeds :)
other than that their the best
sorry TCF :(
:foilhead:
2003 Gear-Up

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Re: Different Ural models

Postby Tomcatfixer » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:02 pm

Bah! You're amalgamating a whole bunch of different folks' individual complaints. The only time I've ever had to prime my fuel pump is when I replaced it (after breaking the original pump due to my own dumbassery) and I've run out of gas more times than I have fingers to count (and maybe toes, too!).
With my rich, off-road map, I'm in no danger of holing a piston. I can kick start the Mobile Chernobyl on the coldest winter day.

The fuel injected Urals are not bad! Okay, it's no Bosch EFI system (I HAVE been able to confuse the EFI computers with quick throttle transitions), but for a tiny company making a fuel injection system for a boutique motorcycle company, ElectroJet didn't do too bad!
- Chad

Virginia Beach, Virginia, USA

Current rides:
2015 Ural cT "Mobile Chernobyl", 1999 Ural Tourist "Desert DisGrace: the Iron (Oxide) Curtain", 1994 Honda VFR750F, 1986 Yamaha FZX700S Fazer

Previous rides:
2007 Honda VTR1000 FireStorm (Super Hawk in U.S.)
2001 Buell Blast! - - - - - - - 2005 Yamaha FJR1300
1993 Honda CBR600F2 - -1984 Yamaha FJ1100
1986 Yamaha FZX700S (a different one than above)

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Re: Different Ural models

Postby cateyetech » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:32 pm

Tomcatfixer wrote:
The fuel injected Urals are not bad! Okay, it's no Bosch EFI system (I HAVE been able to confuse the EFI computers with quick throttle transitions), but for a tiny company making a fuel injection system for a boutique motorcycle company, ElectroJet didn't do too bad!


:)
2003 Gear-Up

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Re: Different Ural models

Postby INSUBORDINATOR » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:37 am

Rebuilding telescopic forks is not one of my favorite jobs - much rather replace a worn shock. I might add; that IMO the Ural leading link IS A BETTER DESIGN than the old BMW LL.
On my second ROAD tourist with LL fork & 19" interchangeable, drum brake, wheels, running AVON SM tires. I'm very satisfied with it.
Current Motorcycles: 02 Ural Tourist, 2010 modified Royal Enfield G5 Deluxe.

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Re: Different Ural models

Postby Snakeoil » Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:13 am

I think the biggest virtue of LL over tele is anti-dive properties. No, it's not a big deal for normal driving duties, but if you are in an emergency situation and have to brake hard, a diving front end changes the geometry and the bike will want to turn right all by itself adding to the input coming at you like a fire hose as a result of the emergency situation.

For what it is worth, Earles forks are not synonymous with LL forks. It is a type of LL fork. But all LL forks are not Earles type. I believe I read that the Earles were imposed on BMW after WWII. They were an English product/design. Before that, they used tele on all their rigs. The unique feature of the Earles is it has two mounting positions for the swingarm, allowing you to adjust the trail depending on the application.
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Rob
2000 Ural Tourist
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