iKon Suspension for Urals

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GregAus
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Re: iKon Suspension for Urals

Postby GregAus » Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:16 am

Essentially the same design of shock absorber has been used on all Ural swingarm bikes since the M-63 was introduced in 1963 and KMZ/Dnepr with the introduction of the swingarm K-750 in 1957/8. The only exceptions are the Cobra (no rear suspension) and the Wolf and Retro, same shock but different top mounting system. Spring rates were heavier on the KMZ/Dnepr bikes, and softer on solos. The external appearances have changed with exposed springs and different shaft sizes. The Plaza shocks sold in Russia were available in three spring rates. The basic dimensions have remained constant.

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Re: iKon Suspension for Urals

Postby IkonUSA » Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:30 pm

My thanks to Lew for the 3 point Ural weight figures of front and rear wheels and chair. Likewise to Greg for the suspension unit application years. I've advised the iKon factory in Australia that we can revise the Ural application years for the 7610-1664 adjustable rebound (dial-a-ride) unit to 1963-2017 in the fitment chart.

To answer your question Lew with regard to "Spring rate vs Load rate" in shock absorbers I have to say I never find it easy to explain simply and remain meaningful when it comes to matters of springing. However let’s have a go:

The spring rate or rates in the case of a progressive rate spring* is/are the amount of force/load that is required to deflect (compress) the spring a certain amount in the units chosen, e.g. lb/inch or N/mm.

Load rate is not particularly a term iKon use however if the context is a Ural outfit, then I would take it as what load will a certain spring work well with on a Ural. Then it all gets very subjective. The OEM springing, iKon springing, other brand springing are all likely to be different in some way and we’ll all say things like "That’s good for riders between 165lbs and 220lbs with pre-load adjustment to be able to add a passenger or gear in the sidecar or both." So for us to really select the correct spring rate** for a Ural customer, that customer has to tell us what load weight in terms of people and gear he or she is going to be placing on the outfit.

You won't get the best from any shock absorber unless you know the load weight. For example, a 100lbs rider, no passenger, no luggage is going to need a different rate spring than a 300lbs rider, 200lbs passenger and 200lbs of kit in the chair. Think of it like buying a made to measure suit rather than one "off the peg". Both fit, but one fits so much better than the other.

The fact is, manufacturers don't know what load (Lbs) is going to be put on their machines, so they have to opt for a spring rate which is 'average' or what they believe average to be.

The limitation to all that being if Ural say for example the load limit is 1300lbs for a particular model of outfit, then increasing the spring rate does not change that. The load limit is still 1300lbs as it is made up of more than just spring rate. It’s about all sorts of other things like frame strength, wheel bearings, bushes, tire load rates and so on.

* A progressive rate spring means the coils of the spring are close together at one end and 'progressively' become wider apart.
** iKon use the term 'spring rate' when referring to a hard or soft spring.

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Lmo
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Re: iKon Suspension for Urals

Postby Lmo » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:28 pm

Thanks Roger. Actually, my understanding fits well with your explanation.

Now, all we need in a bunch of sidecar rigs, and bunch of shocks/springs combinations, all in one place, at one time, so each rider could mix'n'match to his/her ride preference.

I'm sure you'll keep us up to date on developments.
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Re: iKon Suspension for Urals

Postby dneprlover » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:12 am

Some measurements quoted in this thread didn't ring right with me but I haven't been well enough until today to get round to checking.

All measurements obtained by vernier caliper between centre of fixing points

2 x nos Dnepr units........325mm
11 x used Dnepr units ...... 325mm
3 x nos Ural Units ( from a 1970's Ural dealer who retired 10 years ago) .......330mm
2 x used Ural unit from the same dealer ......1@325mm and 1@330mm

10 x new units as currently sold by the East European sellers , advertised as suitable for Ural/Dnepr.....345mm.

I think the new supplied units are Chinese built for L/L forks . Certainly the ride height is higher and they seem firmer when fitted all round. They are a real PITA to fit to the swinging arms of both sidecar and rear but work well if one is prepared to cope with the struggle. A set of 5 costs less than 1 Hagon

Sorry to upset the applecart, but these are my findings
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Re: iKon Suspension for Urals

Postby Lmo » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:34 am

Thread Hijack: ON

dneprlover, has it been your experience that internal components of these "russian'' shocks are full on variable? I've had less than a dozen apart and none of them had the same configuration of valve discs, order of assembly, spring, etc. I suppose it's understandable that with old equipment, previously mechanics may have lost parts or substituted.

Thread Hijack: OFF
Lew Morris
Pismo Beach, California, 93449.
1963 (?) Dnural w/ '06 Ural Drive Train
C5 Power Arc
125/42 jets
Drilled slides/
.030" shims

1973 BMW R75/5 (original owner)
1947 HD FL (long gone, forever regretful)

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Re: iKon Suspension for Urals

Postby IkonUSA » Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:52 am

Interesting findings from dneprlover but not all that surprising.

Different batches form the same supplier or different manufacturers can produce conflicting measurements in terms of suspension unit length and stroke (travel) - not just on Urals. Looking at dneprlover's shock measurements, they are all within 3/4" regardless of manufacturer/year/application. In real seat-of-the-pants feel, the length difference of 3/4" will not be noticeable when riding. The spring rate is far more important when it comes to handling. Just remember to fit them in matched (length) pairs and spring rates.

Typically, from my experience, Chinese made shock absorbers have strong spring rates and crude, weak damping. A stronger spring can disguise a poor or failed damping unit until you hit a decent bump or dip in the road, then you can't stop the bouncing which quickly leads to ill handling over a lumpy stretch of road. While the price of Chinese made units is appealing, when compared to a well made suspension unit - well, you get what you pay for.

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Re: iKon Suspension for Urals

Postby Lmo » Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:36 pm

the length difference of 3/4" will not be noticeable when riding.


... trying to install them is a different story entirely. The swing arm has a down-stop that can make make installation a PITA, especially if over "stock" length. Hagons come to mind on this.

See > viewtopic.php?t=22165
Lew Morris
Pismo Beach, California, 93449.
1963 (?) Dnural w/ '06 Ural Drive Train
C5 Power Arc
125/42 jets
Drilled slides/
.030" shims

1973 BMW R75/5 (original owner)
1947 HD FL (long gone, forever regretful)

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Re: iKon Suspension for Urals

Postby BlueRockCrawler » Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:25 am

:lurker: Very interesting.
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Re: iKon Suspension for Urals

Postby IkonUSA » Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:50 pm

As a direct result of input from this forum, iKon Suspension (Australia) has agreed to introduce a Ural specific shock absorber from the iKon Basix range for Urals, thereby offering a significant reduction in price to the iKon 7610 Series.

The Ural specific Basix model (fully re-buildable, chrome body, black spring) will be part# 76-1664 and will be sold separately at a cost of $ 140.00 each. In comparison, the 7610 Series units with 'Dial-a-Ride' adjustable rebound damping cost $210.00 each.

Although the Basix model shares many components with the 7610 Series, Basix models do not have 'Dial-a-Ride', but retain the 3 position adjustment for the spring pre-load. Several different rates of springs are also available to suit customers' requirements.

Availability of the 76-1664 will be October 2017 onwards - advance orders presently being taken.

As the information offered by forum members has been very comprehensive and useful, the shipping charge ($ 50.00 insured shipping for 5 units to US addresses) has been waived by way of recognition to forum members for their contributions from 9.15.17 to 12.31.17.

Only phone/email orders can be accepted at present until the part# and pics. become available on the iKonSuspensionUSA website.

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Re: iKon Suspension for Urals

Postby roscoau » Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:27 am

I was going to buy a set of shocks from Ikon soon; I'll have to enquire again now. I'm fortunate to be able to visit the factory to talk to them.
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Re: iKon Suspension for Urals

Postby Tomcatfixer » Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:29 am

The Ural specific Basix model (fully re-buildable, chrome body, black spring)

Chrome clashes with camouflage. Any way to get the shocks in all-black or other custom colors? Maybe, say, with nuclear yellow-orange springs??

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Current rides:
2015 Ural cT "Mobile Chernobyl", 1999 Ural Tourist "Desert DisGrace: the Iron (Oxide) Curtain", 1994 Honda VFR750F, 1986 Yamaha FZX700S Fazer

Previous rides:
2007 Honda VTR1000 FireStorm (Super Hawk in U.S.)
2001 Buell Blast! - - - - - - - 2005 Yamaha FJR1300
1993 Honda CBR600F2 - -1984 Yamaha FJ1100
1986 Yamaha FZX700S (a different one than above)

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Re: iKon Suspension for Urals

Postby VWK75S » Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:04 am

IkonUSA wrote:Different batches form the same supplier or different manufacturers can produce conflicting measurements in terms of suspension unit length and stroke (travel) - not just on Urals.

I hear that, when I rebuilt the forks on the K-bike they had different guts :? (maybe intentionally), glad I did them one at a time.
John
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Re: iKon Suspension for Urals

Postby IkonUSA » Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:17 pm

Chad,

A black spring , black body version of the iKon Basix for the Ural should present no problem - add 'SP14' to the end of the part# i.e. 76-1664-SP14. It would fall into the 'special order' category, as the regular version of the iKon Basix for the Ural would have a chrome body and black spring. I'd estimate you would have a 4 week wait from the time of order. Price would likely remain the same at $ 140.00 (US) each with free shipping (to US based forum members) until 12.31.17.

Your request for 'Chernobyl Orange' colored springs caused my raised eyebrow to slap the brim of my hat and make the corks dance around a bit!
I think I'll have to say the color palette will (no doubt unfortunately) remain with very conservative chrome or black options.

In the case of suspension units, some customers are invariably looking to obtain springs color matched to their motorcycle's bodywork - and that leads to innumerable issues with color shade matching. The universality of black or chrome addresses the issue.

However, there's nothing to stop a customer from having springs powder coated locally to their color choice.

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Re: iKon Suspension for Urals

Postby Snakeoil » Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:32 pm

I have to say that this is a very generous offer from Ikon. 5 shocks at a time is still a big lump to swallow for some. But the price is a bargain for quality, rebuildable shocks.

I have an idea I want to run by you. I will send a PM.
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Re: iKon Suspension for Urals

Postby gobium » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:35 am

Say
2013 1wd sidecar car shock will not fit on older 650 and 750 without mods to swing arm!
Or the shock
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