Cob, builds his version of the "windmill" air box

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Cob, builds his version of the "windmill" air box

Postby mr. cob » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:17 pm

Howdy All,

I have been following the exploits of Barry "windmill" and Richard "Leftka" as they have built and modified, constantly refined their air boxes. The air box I have been running for the last four years has worked extremely well but what these two miscreants have come up with in my opinion may very well work better and I think the best praise a person can give is to incorporate the work of others into ones own contraptions. THANK YOU Barry for pioneering this radical concept on the Ural. :clap: :clap: :clap:

I'll be using the air filter and the rubber end caps from my old air box as I build this new one. Using my old filter and end caps will make the fabrication of this new air box much SIMPLER then what the other folks have done as I won't need to build couplers from many different parts.

I am now waiting the for the "Enginaire Pre-Cleaner" to arrive, in the mean time I went down to the local hardware store and purchased the THREE pieces of PVC that will be used to build my version of this style of air box. All I am using is One 4" white PVC Tee, One piece of 2" OD PVC pipe, and One 4" PVC end cap. I may when the air box itself is finished bond to it a couple of PVC couplers that will have steel nuts bonded into them which will be used to mount the air box to the frame of my bike in the same location as my old air box was mounted. If I go this route I'll include how it is done in this build report. So lets get started.

These are the parts I started with, a 4" PVC Tee, a 4" PVC end cap, and a chunk of 2" OD PVC pipe. The rubber end cap is a part I modified to use on my old air box and will be reusing on this version of the air box.
Image

This photo shows how I cut the end off of the PVC end cap and have cut very short the center coupling part of the PVC Tee. I will grind down the flat part of the end cap so that it fits snugly into the shortened center coupling on the Tee where it will be glued in place.
Image

Here you can see that the center coupling of the PVC Tee has been capped off by gluing the modified PVC end cap in place. EDIT, as the end cap was so thin I used TWO pieces of end cap glued together and then glued into the Tee. I neglected to mention this when I first put this post up.
Image

The next step will be to drill-machine a very tight hole in the center of the PVC end cap that has been glued into the PVC Tee to accept a short piece of 2" OD PVC pipe. I'll use a 1-3/4" hole-saw to rough the hole in the end cap and then finish bore it to size with a boring head on my milling machine. I want the pipe to be a press fit as the end cap is not that thick and the bond between it and the pipe will have to support the Pre-Cleaner. Once I get the Pre-Cleaner in hand and see how much it weighs I may change the plan to allow for some other support of the 2" OD pipe. I want to make this as compact as possible so the plan at this stage of the game is to have the Pre-Cleaner mount as close as possible to the flat surface of the end cap.
Last edited by mr. cob on Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mr. Cob

Driver of the "Predator" a highly modified 2005 Gear-Up.

Driver of the "Canyon Acrobat" a 2008 Gear-Up, this rig is now driven primarily by "Mrs. Cob"

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Re: Cob, builds his version of the "windmill" air box

Postby windmill » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:58 pm

Hey Dave, :cheers:

Another Wind-Mill. :boogie:

But to set the record straight, I just adapted* the concept, Zundapp pioneered the concept 70 years ago. :deal:

































* stole. :roll:
Barry

"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills".

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Re: Cob, builds his version of the "windmill" air box

Postby Leftka » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:35 pm

Excellent mr. Cob...can 't wait to see your version finished
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Re: Cob, builds his version of the "windmill" air box

Postby cdscoot » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:55 pm

:? :o :lurker:
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Re: Cob, builds his version of the "windmill" air box

Postby mr. cob » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:59 pm

cdscoot wrote::? :o :lurker:

Howdy cdscoot,

The only differences between my old air box and this new one will be the use of plastic rather then metal to make the air box itself and the addition of the pre-cleaner, other then that its really the same old air box that has been working well for a long time. Its the pre-cleaner that is the real improvement.
Mr. Cob

Driver of the "Predator" a highly modified 2005 Gear-Up.

Driver of the "Canyon Acrobat" a 2008 Gear-Up, this rig is now driven primarily by "Mrs. Cob"

Driver of the yet unnamed, 2014 Asphalt Gray Gear-Up that will be used to prove out and test parts for the new generation of Fueli rigs.

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Re: Cob, builds his version of the "windmill" air box

Postby cdscoot » Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:47 am

mr. cob wrote:
cdscoot wrote::? :o :lurker:

Howdy cdscoot,

The only differences between my old air box and this new one will be the use of plastic rather then metal to make the air box itself and the addition of the pre-cleaner, other then that its really the same old air box that has been working well for a long time. Its the pre-cleaner that is the real improvement.

I knew you would find a way to use those milling machines and alla those other high faultin tools ! Still - it doesn't look like there isn't anything that could' tbe done by hand. I am waiting untill alla you TESTERS get done and THEN i'm gonna steal all the brains ! :lol: :lol: :lol: :cheers:
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Re: Cob, builds his version of the "windmill" air box

Postby on2wheels52 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:10 am

cdscoot wrote:I am waiting untill alla you TESTERS get done and THEN i'm gonna steal all the brains ! :lol: :lol: :lol: :cheers:


You've also stolen my plan :)
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Re: Cob, builds his version of the "windmill" air box

Postby Coluralado » Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:06 am

on2wheels52 wrote:
cdscoot wrote:I am waiting untill alla you TESTERS get done and THEN i'm gonna steal all the brains ! :lol: :lol: :lol: :cheers:


You've also stolen my plan :)
Jim



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Re: Cob, builds his version of the "windmill" air box

Postby RG, SW WA. » Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:16 am

Great start with good pictures and descriptions of what your doing, wouldn’t expect anything less.
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Re: Cob, builds his version of the "windmill" air box

Postby gobium » Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:31 am

Coluralado wrote:
on2wheels52 wrote:
cdscoot wrote:I am waiting untill alla you TESTERS get done and THEN i'm gonna steal all the brains ! :lol: :lol: :lol: :cheers:


You've also stolen my plan :)
Jim



+2 :thumbsup:

Me +3
Next question look at picture below
Screenshot_2013-02-28-10-28-56.png
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Re: Cob, builds his version of the "windmill" air box

Postby Leftka » Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:54 am

gobium wrote:
Coluralado wrote:
on2wheels52 wrote:
cdscoot wrote:I am waiting untill alla you TESTERS get done and THEN i'm gonna steal all the brains ! :lol: :lol: :lol: :cheers:


You've also stolen my plan :)
Jim



+2 :thumbsup:

Me +3
Next question look at picture below
Screenshot_2013-02-28-10-28-56.png


Think you have your math all wrong...maybe the wrong formula..CFM=(rpm x CID x volumetric efficiency)/3456...think you are calculating cmm and need to convert it...we all looked at this 9 ways to Sunday before started down this path...thanks anyway for trying to help...
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Re: Cob, builds his version of the "windmill" air box

Postby barnone » Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:55 am

gobium wrote:
Coluralado wrote:
on2wheels52 wrote:
cdscoot wrote:I am waiting untill alla you TESTERS get done and THEN i'm gonna steal all the brains ! :lol: :lol: :lol: :cheers:


You've also stolen my plan :)
Jim



+2 :thumbsup:

Me +3
Next question look at picture below
Screenshot_2013-02-28-10-28-56.png


Try using this CFM calculator at http://www.sy-klone.com/mm5/merchant.mv ... IZING-CALC
using Other Manufacturer and plugging in the specs for our 750cc Ural engines.

When I did it, the calculator recommended their 9000 pre filter which is rated at a max of 50 CFM. I ordered one off Ebay to try with my Zundapp Luftfilter.
There is also a 9000R model which is a 3" model vs the 9000 which is 2".

See chart at http://www.sy-klone.com/mm5/merchant.mv ... ry_Code=S9

BTW, I am full circle back to my Zundapp days of 1956. :D

Zundapp.jpg


http://www.zundappfool.com/techstuff/ai ... filter.htm
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Re: Cob, builds his version of the "windmill" air box

Postby RG, SW WA. » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:13 pm

Just thinking, “something a man should never do”, two Pre-cleaners.
Get two 4” white PVC tee’s, cut the ends on both tee’s to a minimum, fit the ends of tee's together with the smallest width of ID PVC pipe.
Now will it fit ?
You then can have two Pre-cleaners. More air flow.
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Re: Cob, builds his version of the "windmill" air box

Postby windmill » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:36 pm

RG, SW WA. wrote:Just thinking, “something a man should never do”, two Pre-cleaners.
Get two 4” white PVC tee’s, cut the ends on both tee’s to a minimum, fit the ends of tee's together with the smallest width of ID PVC pipe.
Now will it fit ?
You then can have two Pre-cleaners. More air flow.


If you look at the specifications of the various precleaners, you will see that there is also a minimum cfm. A 2" engineaire has a minimum of 20 cfm which works out to about 1800 rpm (20/1800). Using 2 precleaners would double the minimum cfm and rpm to 40/3600 before the precleaner starts to function.

If you look at the rpm-speed ratio of a Ural, http://sovietsteeds.com/forums/viewtopi ... 38&start=0 you will see that at 3600 rpm a large portion of the useable rpm range the precleaner wouldn't be functioning, and most of the time at the rpm range used in off road conditions.

Kinda defeats the purpose of having a precleaner.
Barry

"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills".

07 Patrol,
Wind-Mill MK-III aircleaner conversion,
Custom foam filter element,
42/135 jets,
OE needles, 2 shims,
air screws at 5.03 "Hg,
Ural European performance exhaust (cats intact).
Spin on filter conversion,
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Re: Cob, builds his version of the "windmill" air box

Postby mr. cob » Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:24 pm

Howdy All,

"IF" I were building an air filter system for a "high rpm race engine" I would have gone with a larger pre-cleaner, however as I am building an air filter system for a "URAL" that will be used at an rpm range of between 1,000 and ,4000 95% of the time I went with a pre-cleaner that will work better at that rpm range. VELOCITY of the air flow is what makes the pre-cleaner work if the pre-cleaner is to large there won't be enough air flow through it to make it work until your at the upper rpm limit of the Ural engine then it really won't be doing what you want it to do if you use the rig as "I" do.

Bigger is not always better ask someone who made the mistake of building a small block Chevy engine better suited to a drag strip and instead put it into a Jeep, for YEARS I tried to educate friends who did this as to the gross mistake they were making but nothing proved the point better then watching that hot rod motor fall flat on its face at anything under 4,500 rpm, as my stock 400ci small block in a similar Jeep would crawl up and down mountains, creep over large rocks and logs all day long at rpms from idle to 5,000. Build your machine to best perform at an rpm range where it will spend MOST of its time not at some extreme you will rarely if ever reach.
Mr. Cob

Driver of the "Predator" a highly modified 2005 Gear-Up.

Driver of the "Canyon Acrobat" a 2008 Gear-Up, this rig is now driven primarily by "Mrs. Cob"

Driver of the yet unnamed, 2014 Asphalt Gray Gear-Up that will be used to prove out and test parts for the new generation of Fueli rigs.

My Photo galleries, http://mr-cob.smugmug.com/

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