Ural Performance Upgrades

The "Pimp my Ride" section for Soviet bloc bikes. Everybody seems to have their own custom add-ons, modifications & accessories. Share your tips and post pictures of them here.
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This is the place for topics concerining modifying and accessorizing your Ural or Denpr.
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cateyetech
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Ural Performance Upgrades

Postby cateyetech » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:33 pm

Let's talk Ural performance upgrades

Before we begin I have spent the last several weeks reading old post on this topic here on SS and ADV and even registered on RI so I could search there too going back as far as 2007 and there as several members who have preformed some of these upgrades/mods and have posted about them in various threads but were always w@$#ed out by all the….
"It's a tractor, it can't be improved, the technology is too old, the differential and trans will fail, the crankshaft will fail, just drop in a BMW…
So please don't post all that wonderful info here.
Please :foilhead:

I made a list of the upgrades I could think of and If you have preformed any of them that have improved the power, drivability, overall performance of your rig I would like to hear about and see them, anything that made your rig pull better and still has good-great low-end pull really interest me :)

I think there will be many Ignition upgrade owners, the faster curve really helps with the low-mid pull.

I'm getting ready to do a 79mm forged piston set and a little porting on some 05 heads (port to bowl transition area) so that’s why I've been reading all the old post, even DaveO did some porting but I couldn't find his post :(

I'm not looking to build a HOTROD Ural and I know the new Urals have upgraded heads/ ported heads
and the Fuel Injection is a upgraded fuel system and everyone says they preform better than the old ones so there must be a little extra (non EPA) still left.



The mod's we have done so far have (new Mikuni carbs/2-1 exhaust/UNI foam filter/stock air box mods/2* advanced timing w/ type V ignition) the rig running great but it has some piston noise on the left side for some time,
PO cooked the rings to the pistons and I just cleaned up the cylinders and reused them with new pistons 50,000km ago :)
So were due for a new top end!!!
And while we're there, just a little over bore and light comp bump and new to us 05 heads ported like the newer heads :)
Just to help a little, it's hilly and curvy around here!!!



Here is the list of mods I came up with :foilhead:
Please share your performance mod experience with us :D


Carbureted Ural Performance Upgrades

1 Air Box and tubes

Less restrictive air filter (stock blue filter is a K&N style/oiled cotton gauze)
Less restrictive air box (new FI style/ modified early OE/one of many DYI boxes)
New air box to carb tubes (new one piece/home made/or are the old 3pc OE tubes ok?)


2 Carburetor

OE Keihin CVK
Rejet mains and piolet jets (richer)
Readjust idle mixture (richer)
Drill slide air hole
Shim slide needle
Aftermarket needles?

Aftermarket Carburetors
Round or flat slide? (Flat slides create more vacuum/lift/pressure differential with less air flow)
What size? 28mm-38mm
Idle fuel screw (like 4 stroke carb) or idle air screw (like 2 stroke carbs/really sensitive to adjust on 4 stroke for good idle and just off idle)?

3 Fuel Injection
EJK Fuel Controller


4 Ignition

Sparkplugs
Regular or Iridium or triple ground strap?
Indexed plugs?

5 Ignition System Type

Type 3-4-5?
Stock or advanced timing?

Ducati Type?

New C-5 or old power arch?
Fast curve?
VOES switch?

New and unknown from EBay ?


6 NEWEST OPTION!!!!
(Mr Cob) Dual plug option?

7 Exhaust
Push in type vs bolt on type (for flow)?

2-2 system
With or without the crossover tube?
Muffler inlet size?
Muffler outlet size?
Muffler location? (front/driver foot peg-mid/swing arm-rear/rear wheel "like high exit FMF's")

2-1 system
Muffler inlet size?
Muffler outlet size?
Muffler location? (front/driver foot peg-mid/swing arm-rear/end of exhaust "like high exit FMF's")


Low (straight) or high (two or more 45* angles in pipe)?

Mufflers
Chambered or straight through?
Any pipe past muffler?
How long & what size?

Coatings
Internal or external?


8 Cam
HaHaHa :)
Cam timing (with offset key on crank or cam)?

9 Heads
2010-2012? & up (factory porting is much better!!! and bee hive springs with smaller valve stems and guides, all :)
Early OE heads Ported?

10 Rocker Arms
New Roller arms (do they help or just needed with the new springs)?

11 Push Rods
OE-modtop-homemade?

12 Pistons
Cast or forged?
Over Bored 79-8?
More compression?
825cc kit?
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cateyetech
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Re: Ural Performance Upgrades

Postby cateyetech » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:06 am

Comparison of FI and carb head (after porting) :foilhead:

WP_20170812_20_51_17_Pro.jpg


WP_20170812_20_51_41_Pro.jpg


WP_20170812_20_51_55_Pro.jpg


WP_20170812_20_52_44_Pro.jpg


WP_20170812_20_54_22_Pro.jpg


WP_20170812_20_54_45_Pro.jpg


WP_20170812_20_55_10_Pro.jpg


WP_20170812_20_58_00_Pro.jpg


WP_20170812_20_57_34_Pro.jpg


will report on the performance in a few weeks :cheers:
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jaybird
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Re: Ural Performance Upgrades

Postby jaybird » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:51 am

Thanks for starting this thread cateye, much more interesting than the daily drivel that has been circulating lately. Anybody that says, "Its a tractor, old technology, it can't be improved", hasn't been to the tractor pulls. I modified my stock air box (still using) and built an exhaust (took it off, to loud) that was moving so much air I was having a hard time tuning the carburetors. I have photos of my air box mod, I'll dig them up. I still have the exhaust if anyone wants it, $100+ shipping. I also modified the oiling system, nothing major, just things that looked like they needed doing, it must have worked because I haven't been able to kill the crankshaft I put in at the time. I don't think I have any photos of that but I'll try to remember what I did.
Thanks again.

Happy trails,
Jaybird
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1975 Enfield Diesel Bullet
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Etc.

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chaos2
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Re: Ural Performance Upgrades

Postby chaos2 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:10 am

It is rewarding to take the old tech and get it to idle, pull strongly through the rev range, start easily and get good mileage. Trickiest & most critical part for me was getting the right combination of jets, needles and needle heights. When I got close I'd change one thing and run a tank of gas to evaluate changes before changing something else. Splurging on a full set of jets helps.
past afflictions include TR motocars and bikes, R60/2 & a R65, MGs, and a Citroen.
Now a 2012 FF GU and an 87 K75s
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Modtop exhaust
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cateyetech
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Re: Ural Performance Upgrades

Postby cateyetech » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:55 am

Hey JayB
Thanks :foilhead:
and please do post some pictures :)

Also thanks for adding OILING UPGRADES to this thread :bow:


Hey chaos

You bring up a VERY GOOD POINT about extended testing of a new setup :bow:

The one thing that made the biggest improvement in drivability-fuel economy-performance was NEW FLAT SLIDE CARBS :foilhead:
our old carbs were well tuned and the new ones SUUCK!!! in a GREAT WAY!!!!!

http://www.sovietsteeds.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=47247

At first we didn't get the benefit of the improved top end that these carbs produce due to our exhaust :(
but after a exhaust change and 2k miles I can say that it pulls hills in 4th gear that it would NOT do before with the CVK carbs :boogie:

http://www.sovietsteeds.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=43804&p=545460#p545460

And while I'm at it here is our air filter mods

http://www.sovietsteeds.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=43807&p=545502#p545502

http://www.sovietsteeds.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=44220&p=550825#p550825

:foilhead:
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Re: Ural Performance Upgrades

Postby cateyetech » Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:05 pm

Here is a great cam thread :foilhead:

http://sovietsteeds.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=48043

I suspect that the 650 cam also has more valve overlap during exhaust to intake stroke transitionwhich enhances intake draw into the cylinder :)
but also causes some unburned fuel to exit in the exhaustand causes high hydrocarbon readings during emission testing :(

Has anyone changed to this cam?
What were the effects?

I know Mr Cob has but I would think the 825 has so many mods to really be able to tell the effect of each one :bow:

:foilhead:
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Re: Ural Performance Upgrades

Postby Snakeoil » Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:34 pm

It will be fun to watch the progess here. I am wishing you great success. I'm concern that you may hit some limit that is a function of the design of the engine, but I'm keeping a positive outlook.

A few thoughts on this subject.

You want some turbulence in the intake ports to provide good mixing of the air/fuel charge. A stratified charge is not going to help. So, you want a straight path with some turbulence.

A longer intake tract may help. Leg room will limit thig. But it's worth experimenting with.

Creating more torque at the bottom end will put a greater load on the crank. I'm not peeing on your cupcake and doing what you asked folks not to do. Just mentioning this so you can keep an eye on things. The comparison to tractors being used in tractor pulls is pretty much so much rhetoric. If you want to have a forged crank made for your Ural, then maybe you might draw some similarities. But true tractor pull engines are a better analogy to slapping in a BMW engine.

There will always be trade-offs. A bigger carb will give you a better top end. But it will kill intake velocity at lower rpm and your bottom end will suffer. My guess is Ural figured out the best compromise between good bottom end and top end performance so if it were me, I'd stick with the same throat size as the CVK and see if your Miks give you a little better vacuum signal, which you said is a feature they provide.

2 into 1 exhaust is the preferred exhaust for the street as it helps provide the best breathing for the engine.

More displacement is probably the quickest path to better performance. But again, the crank is the limiting factor.

Another quick path would be a turbo upgrade. But I'm sure it would crater something.

Are you planning on putting the rig on a dyno for before and after testing? How about installing something like a Vapor so you can do a calc of performance?
Regards,
Rob
2000 Ural Tourist
Before you say something stupid, always ask yourself, "What would Harpo say?".

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cateyetech
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Re: Ural Performance Upgrades

Postby cateyetech » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:51 pm

Hey SO

Thanks for no naysaying :)
I hope to have positive place to talk performance improvements :foilhead:

When I ported the heads I only took out the sharp edges where the port and the bowl came together :) as Mr Cob showed in a old thread :bow:
I didn't enlarge the ports at all, if you click on the pictures you can see I actually reduced them slightly :foilhead: even though the FI port is larger :?
and it's the light reflection making them look slick/smooth :) there not :foilhead:
as you said they are rough and straight 8)

The new carbs actually gave the most performance gain (so far) in the low and mid range :)
there was a top end gain but not as significant as the low-mid,

The 2-1 increased the low-mid for us, with the 03 OE exhaust it had top end only (very sucky for our curser) smooth low-mid but weak
the sickles I work on HD :lol: almost always have improved performance when going 2-1 and retuning :foilhead:

No Hot Rod Ural= no long runner intake/tunnel ram-no turbo-no exhaust that's not off-road or rear passenger friendly :) sorry :(
and no dyno :(

I know with out data it's all just a guess, but hopefully the owners who are doing these kind of mods have ridden their rigs enough to really tell if there is a real gain or not.
Not like the guy with the sawed off muffler who says it makes a lot more power and it's just really loud and makes less power :lol:

I don't know what a vapor is though?

:foilhead:
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Re: Ural Performance Upgrades

Postby Snakeoil » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:50 pm

Vapor is a bike computer. It was a thought back when I built the track bike. I was pretty sure that they had the capability to calculate hp and torque vs rpm with some input from the user. I may have mixed the Vapor up with another bike computer.

Here's a link to their site. http://www.trailtech.net/digital-gauges/vapor

There has been a method to calculate hp based on doing 0-60mph time measurement for years. The Vapor does it for you. At least I think it does. Gray hair, ya'know.
Regards,
Rob
2000 Ural Tourist
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Re: Ural Performance Upgrades

Postby BlueRockCrawler » Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:04 am

If you have an old smart phone, you can get apps that will use the accellerometer in it along with vehicle data you input for a good consistent, objective estimate of improvements. How do you plan on getting and what are you using for your objective metrics to tell if it's working? How much did the port work help? I'm not sure if you were going the EFI route, you'd want to use EJK, or at least not the OEM one they put on the Ural. You'd want something you can adjust and read data off of easily and not need another black box to hook up/ fail. Good luck, I'm looking forward to what you find
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Re: Ural Performance Upgrades

Postby cateyetech » Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:11 pm

Hey BRC

Thanks, I did download a app today :)
but I don't think a 0-60mph WOT run is what we're trying to do "peak horsepower"
We're really trying to improve the low-mid range (5-50mph) pulling up hills :) where we ride :)

We're already running different carbs and 2-1 exhaust which has already greatly improved the low-mid
but I'm positive our current exhaust is too restrictive for great top end because how much the low-mid improved
nothing does it all, unless it has a tuning valve :twisted:

I think cleaning up the heads will help keep the fuel suspended better, we'll see in a few weeks :foilhead:
but we're doing pistons at the same time so it may be hard to tell if there are improvements which one caused it though.

:foilhead:
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Re: Ural Performance Upgrades

Postby Mr Wazzock » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:46 am

:lurker:


.
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Re: Ural Performance Upgrades

Postby BlueRockCrawler » Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:28 am

This is what I'm wondering. You're not really going to see the improvements on the top end, how do you quantify the actual improvements you will see in drivibility and idle quality?
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Re: Ural Performance Upgrades

Postby Msblu79 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:58 am

Be careful not to enlarge the ports to much or it can affect low speed performance and idle. To big a port will reduce the air flow velocity causing erratic fuel mix and poor low speed response. Probably not an issue with the Ural motor but something to keep in mind. :)
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Re: Ural Performance Upgrades

Postby cateyetech » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:38 am

BlueRockCrawler wrote:This is what I'm wondering. You're not really going to see the improvements on the top end, how do you quantify the actual improvements you will see in drivibility and idle quality?


Hey BRC
Yes we're looking for improved drivability/throttle response and torque :)
The OE 2-2 exhaust made much better power at the top but it only pulled hard on the top where we hardly ever run :(
The 2-1 vastly improved the low-mid but did reduce the top end but we don't really use that rpm range.

Before we shifted to 4th @ 45-50mph to keep in the powerband/keep it pulling good
now we shift to 4th @ 35-40mph and after the shift as you pull back on the throttle (1/4 and hardly ever up to 1/2) you can feel the bike pulling :boogie:
Before the mods it would only really pull/make good torque in the upper rpm range :(
I
Now we are going with .040 oversize forged positions with a mild raise in compression and just cleaning up the heads a little :lol:
to improve the efficiency of the pump and hopefully push the overall torque up a little more :foilhead:

That's why I don't think the app is going to be that useful, but I am going to give it a few try's to get some kind of a baseline

:foilhead:
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